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Old 01-17-2018, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
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I was reminded of a story around here quite a few years ago, in which an older man claimed that a bunch of teenagers had robbed him and pulled his pants around his ankles. I don't remember all the details - there might have been a long gun involved and there was for sure a pickup truck. So everyone started talking about "young people nowadays" as he knew they would and how crime was on the increase and now they've gone so far as to rob and humiliate innocent old men driving around in the bush.

The real story did come out and the old man was an alcoholic who had been driving country roads through the bush and drinking beer in his pickup truck. He stopped to take a leak but didn't put the truck into park and the truck began moving forward and the open door knocked him to the ground.

See Mouldy, if you're reading - we do have rednecks here. It would make a fine country song!

Picking on "young people" in terms of crimes is an easy target as young people do get involved with crime. However, no one ever warned us against all old white men or insinuated there was a conspiracy of old white men. Some people do hoaxes because they are trying to cover something up, and others, like Balloon Boy, because they want attention. It's not related to their religion, except incidentally, in that people use what they have.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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There was another alleged hijab pulling incident in Toronto over the noon-hour. On a bus this time. Details to follow.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post

Picking on "young people" in terms of crimes is an easy target as young people do get involved with crime. However, no one ever warned us against all old white men or insinuated there was a conspiracy of old white men. Some people do hoaxes because they are trying to cover something up, and others, like Balloon Boy, because they want attention. It's not related to their religion, except incidentally, in that people use what they have.
It still baffles me however that this girl and probably her parents would concoct this, especially given the stigma attached to their community. That said, you can't generalize whole swaths of people. Each group has their good, bad and ugly and it is unfair to expect that any one person or family be an Ambassador for a community.

Last edited by fusion2; 01-17-2018 at 04:39 PM..
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
It still baffles me however that this girl and probably her parents would concoct this, especially given the stigma attached to their community. That said, you can't generalize whole swaths of people. Each group has their good, bad and ugly and it is unfair to expect that any one person or family be an Ambassador for a community.
It never makes sense to normal people why people concoct some stories. It could be that this mother saw the attention paid to other instances of anti-Muslim attacks, and just wanted attention. Sort of like Munchausen's. For some people any attention is good attention.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
It never makes sense to normal people why people concoct some stories. It could be that this mother saw the attention paid to other instances of anti-Muslim attacks, and just wanted attention. Sort of like Munchausen's. For some people any attention is good attention.
Makes sense As much as we can make sense of it.
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I agree.

Btw I have been on this planet for four and a half decades and for a good three of them Muslims were just another group like Buddhists Sikhs Armenians Shintoists Taoists Doukhobors whatever...

Just thinking back when I was in university around 1990 and saying that you were concerned about Muslims then was about the same as saying it about Hutterites or Yazidis. Most people would have said uhhhhhhhh.

So at some point things really changed. We non-Muslims may have changed but Muslims themselves changed too.
I really think things changed post 9/11.. Maybe it started to foment in the 90's but 9/11 was the defining event where things just sort of went downhill both in terms of Islamic extremism and a declining view of Islam in the western world.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/au...--finance.html

Quote:
GENEVA (Reuters) - Australia has complained at the World Trade Organization about Canada's rules on wine sales, expanding a similar U.S. complaint against one Canadian region.
In October, Washington accused the Canadian province of British Columbia of providing an unfair advantage to local vineyards by giving their wine an exclusive retail channel in grocery store shelves and cutting out U.S. competition.
Australia's complaint, published by the WTO on Tuesday, expanded the U.S. argument, saying that not only British Columbia but also Ontario, Quebec and Nova Scotia, as well as the Canadian government, had policies on wine that broke WTO rules.
"It appears that a range of distribution, licensing and sales measures such as product mark-ups, market access and listing policies, as well as duties and taxes on wine applied at the federal and provincial level may discriminate, either directly or indirectly, against imported wine," Australia said.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
It still baffles me however that this girl and probably her parents would concoct this, especially given the stigma attached to their community. That said, you can't generalize whole swaths of people. Each group has their good, bad and ugly and it is unfair to expect that any one person or family be an Ambassador for a community.
In my personal experience with people I've known and also based on what I've observed, the reactions of Muslims to any stigma attached to their community hasn't been one of fear or anxiety. They do think it's unfair of course but generally react to it with resolve and even defiance. By and large they're far from shrinking violets.
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I really think things changed post 9/11.. Maybe it started to foment in the 90's but 9/11 was the defining event where things just sort of went downhill both in terms of Islamic extremism and a declining view of Islam in the western world.
There have been significant changes and upheavals in the Muslim world itself as well over the past 20 years or so. The women walking around with hijabs and face veils today are often the daughters and granddaughters of women who were walking around with their hair uncovered and wearing western clothes (and even bikinis on the beach) during the 70s and 80s...
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,141,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
There have been significant changes and upheavals in the Muslim world itself as well over the past 20 years or so. The women walking around with hijabs and face veils today are often the daughters and granddaughters of women who were walking around with their hair uncovered and wearing western clothes (and even bikinis on the beach) during the 70s and 80s...
To your other point about Muslims not being shrinking violets - i'm totally aware of that. I do think however that any group that has had the negative press about them are going to 'feel' an impact. Some of the most horrific images of this century that the western world has witnessed has been at the hands of groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS. These things have lasting impact on the psyche both on Westerners and of course on Muslims even the more liberal and moderate one's.

As for more women walking around with face veils and hijabs. While that may be the case, on its own I don't think that is much of an issue if it is linked to their religion and they are operating within the laws of the land. It could also be that there are simply way more muslims around cities like Toronto and Montreal now than in the 70's and 80's. That said, there certainly has been a shift to more conservative ways in the Muslim world at large. The extremism that we have seen over the last few decades is a symptom of that for sure. I think this actually is negatively impacting the muslim world and hampering their ability to progress socially.
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