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They are just “twinning” an existing pipeline...repeat...existing pipeline.
I’m as green as the next person, tree hugger, etc...my degree is in geography but
Canada and Alberta specifically needs to perk up it’s sagging economy.
Canada has the resources, the world needs it, if they don’t get it from us they’ll just get it
from somewhere else.
If it is about constructing a “new” pipeline route I’d be more on the same side as Ms May.
They are just “twinning” an existing pipeline...repeat...existing pipeline.
I’m as green as the next person, tree hugger, etc...my degree is in geography but
Canada and Alberta specifically needs to perk up it’s sagging economy.
Canada has the resources, the world needs it, if they don’t get it from us they’ll just get it
from somewhere else.
If it is about constructing a “new” pipeline route I’d be more on the same side as Ms May.
I take a similar view though I think we really need to figure other ways of prepping up the economy of not just Alberta but the entire country. Even OPEC countries are doing this as the world is slowly moving away from oil and fossil fuels. The world needs it until it doesn't - we have to figure more into when the world doesn't.
I'm going to preface my statement with "in the absence of any forethought and tangible action;"
Tax revenue funds everything the Green party, NDP, Liberal and Conservatives trot out as "gimmies" when they're running for election.
What is with standing firmly opposed to something that, in the absence of it's additional revenue generation, will require taxation from some other source? We have the NDP now offering up full pharma coverage along with college/university tuitions in a bid to attract the votes.....where do they think that extra money is going to come from if not from our resources being peddled abroad?
Our military is sorely lacking in the equipment to make this second largest country on the planet able to even patrol it's outer perimeter in some semblance of adequacy; by all means let's put up roadblocks to getting our product to markets other than the one currently bashing us over NAFTA and displaying a tendency to bully us into a bad deal. We continue placing ourselves at the mercy of that one market and we've only just begun to see how they'll shaft us.
Where do protesters think the taxation will be derived from to simply maintain those services already in crisis like single payer suffering from inadequate funding from both the conservatives and liberals.
Where do the aboriginals fit in this grand display of obstinate contrariness when every single penny they rely upon comes from taxpayer levies with absolutely no accountability required on their part.
I will readily acknowledge the terrible wrongs committed against our aboriginal peoples over many decades but correcting those problems will most certainly (as they always do) require additional government funding and where do you suppose they think that will come from.
I am fed up with no effective leadership coming out of Ottawa in this dispute to forestall Provinces coming to blows over this and further fracturing our country along economical lines when we've barely survived the last episode of pending divorce over linguistic lines. East versus West remind you of anything slightly more silly going on anywhere else today?
It's as if we are content to sit and watch as children take over the day care.
They are just “twinning” an existing pipeline...repeat...existing pipeline.
I’m as green as the next person, tree hugger, etc...my degree is in geography but
Canada and Alberta specifically needs to perk up it’s sagging economy.
Canada has the resources, the world needs it, if they don’t get it from us they’ll just get it
from somewhere else.
If it is about constructing a “new” pipeline route I’d be more on the same side as Ms May.
It's not a twinning, but an expansion in some areas. It will be going into areas that were previously conservation areas.
"Davies eventually conceded that the company had known the area in question was being designated for conservation but said the company has no plans to alter the route."
"The city also used the hearing to challenge Trans Mountain’s characterization of the pipleline expansion as a “twinning” of existing infrastructure."
This article from the Globe and Mail explains that a seven fold increase in the number of oil tankers going through Vancouver harbour, through a very tricky path of a myriad of islands, on waterways that are full of other ship traffic, both non-oil freighters and pleasure craft etc. I'm more concerned with the tankers, than the actual pipeline.
I'm going to preface my statement with "in the absence of any forethought and tangible action;"
Tax revenue funds everything the Green party, NDP, Liberal and Conservatives trot out as "gimmies" when they're running for election.
What is with standing firmly opposed to something that, in the absence of it's additional revenue generation, will require taxation from some other source? We have the NDP now offering up full pharma coverage along with college/university tuitions in a bid to attract the votes.....where do they think that extra money is going to come from if not from our resources being peddled abroad?
Our military is sorely lacking in the equipment to make this second largest country on the planet able to even patrol it's outer perimeter in some semblance of adequacy; by all means let's put up roadblocks to getting our product to markets other than the one currently bashing us over NAFTA and displaying a tendency to bully us into a bad deal. We continue placing ourselves at the mercy of that one market and we've only just begun to see how they'll shaft us.
Where do protesters think the taxation will be derived from to simply maintain those services already in crisis like single payer suffering from inadequate funding from both the conservatives and liberals.
Where do the aboriginals fit in this grand display of obstinate contrariness when every single penny they rely upon comes from taxpayer levies with absolutely no accountability required on their part.
I will readily acknowledge the terrible wrongs committed against our aboriginal peoples over many decades but correcting those problems will most certainly (as they always do) require additional government funding and where do you suppose they think that will come from.
I am fed up with no effective leadership coming out of Ottawa in this dispute to forestall Provinces coming to blows over this and further fracturing our country along economical lines when we've barely survived the last episode of pending divorce over linguistic lines. East versus West remind you of anything slightly more silly going on anywhere else today?
It's as if we are content to sit and watch as children take over the day care.
Well I'm sure you know that there are others who do not believe having this extra pipeline is going to be that beneficial to Canadians.
The other side of the coin, is how much are we willing to risk ? BC takes all the risks.
I've posted this before, but imagine a major spill does happen.
Vancouver and area loses billions upon billions for god knows how many years because the tourism industry crumbles, the fishing industry is gone, and don't forget the loss of marine life. Whales, dolphins, fish, crabs, mussels, etc all ruined and for how long? Bitumen is not just oil.
Real estate values tumble, especially all the homes in the Gulf Islands etc.
For the people of Vancouver, the shoreline and beaches are part of our daily lives. Any spill will be devastating.
Just a few years ago a " small " fuel spill happened.
It gave just a little taste of what could happen in a bigger disaster. I was staying temporarily on Beach Ave during home reno's. I could smell this spill.
I completely understand the risk associated with oil spills, but, demand additional precautions, demand higher grade pipe, demand inspection procedures of a kind never before contemplated. Be pro-active in a semblance of consideration for the over-all economy and the benefits it brings to other provinces.
I'm fed up with provincial leadership that behave with no regard to confederation and what that ultimately means to us as a whole. Sit at the table and put your foot down for a pipeline like no other and consult experts in the field to design the cadillac of systems to monitor it. Demand compliance of tanker traffic to the degree that if they find it financially unfeasible to acquiesce .....so be it. At least it's been denied after all avenues of every possible safety and security option have been considered.
Tobacco manufactures were required to put billions into a surety account way back in heyday of production, why not consider something that requires the shareholders to indemnify against risk?
Talk about it, but don't dismiss it out of hand because you just might trigger the break-up of a wonderful country over something that could have been avoided with discussion. Everyone clinging to a tree would feel really stupid if those trees got cut down after Canada has to sell off crown holdings to fund the next round of stupid promises by the very people claiming to have it's best interests at heart.
Albertans at this point must be thinking they're an island in the midst of an ocean of antagonists seemingly not caring if they survive or not.
A big oil spill on the west coast would be absolutely catastrophic in ways that most people don't comprehend. The entire west coast is subject to Pacific tidal bore twice a day, compounded so forcefully because of the narrow channels created by the thousands of islands and inlets along the west coast from northern Washington all the way up to Alaska. Nearly all of the fresh water rivers and lakes along the length of the coastline are tidal rivers and lakes. That means when the high tide comes in twice a day the tidal bore pushes up into the rivers causing them to back up into the lakes, also carrying ocean debris, driftwood, marine life and human created pollutants and garbage from the ocean into the fresh water rivers and lakes. So not only the ocean front coast line would be effected by a big oil spill, the oil would be swept up into the rivers and lakes too.
The map below shows the minimum tidal water boundaries (green colour) into the rivers and lakes of the lower mainland, but the higher tidal bore pushes beyond the shown low tidal boundaries for another 80 miles further inland to the mouth of the Fraser Canyon at Hope, and into Pitt Lake and Harrison Lake and any other small lakes, rivers and streams that are connected or empty into the ocean. This map shows only the lower mainland, but it is the same situation for all the coastal rivers and lakes along the entire west coast.
British Columbia has thousands of tidal rivers and streams that empty into the ocean and all are subject to Pacific tidal bore which would carry oil (or worse, bitumen) up into the rivers. Twice a day.
Albertans at this point must be thinking they're an island in the midst of an ocean of antagonists seemingly not caring if they survive or not.
Well if you look in this forum alone you got three natives of Ontario who support Alberta here - me, you and BMI who support them. Chevy is Albertan but he is still part Ontarian i'm sure he supports the pipeline. I support B.C here too but within reason. If you simply want to kill the project due to slim risks and you aren't open to any solution than it is hard to support your stance.
Don't dismiss the fact that behind the scenes Federally - things are happening. He (Trudeau) isn't going to say publicly B.C - we'll listen to you but ultimately this thing is going to be built because it falls under Federal jurisdiction so if you don't play ball - we're going to ram this down your throat regardless. That said, do you know this isn't happening behind the scenes? What's going on Bru lol?
I think we are of the same view here and I believe the PMO is as well. He just can't engage himself on this topic like we do on a forum. As for Albertans - they shouldn't feel like an island - they have support and we are a reflection of that.
Great information in this post Zoisite. All the more reason to ensure everything with this is tight as can be from processes to cleanup *if* the unthinkable happens.
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