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Old 09-10-2016, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
5,950 posts, read 7,318,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
I'd most likely like Vancouver. I guess what I wanted to say is, a trip to Vancouver and a trip to Seattle would be on the same level for me. Very interesting, but very familiar territory if you know what I mean. A trip to Vienna, OTOH, a whole different experience.

I mean, in all my visits to Canada, I never really felt abroad. Same language, same customs, same building types, same cars, same road scenery, same food, very similar mentality. Yes there are differences, but they are not the other world differences. In some ways, there's probably more in common between me and someone in London ON, than some dude in deep rural South.
When people argue that Canada and Canadians are so vastly different from the US and Americans, I tend to bring up the same point. I have found myself and life in PA to have more in common with Ontario than just about any state in the Deep South or way out west. Then there is also the Jesusland map from 2004 .
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,106,207 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
In Canada, similar to the EU, the prosecution can appeal a verdict. In the US, there's something called double jeopardy that prevents the prosecution from appealing a conviction even if new evidence comes to light that confirms guilt. That, in itself, is a significant difference. In Canada and the EU, capital punishment is viewed as barbaric, and prison systems are premised on rehabilitation. In the US, capital punishment is viewed as reasonable, and prison systems are premised on punishment. In Canada, children are not sentenced to life in prison. In the US, children are sentence to life without parole.

Although there may be similar origins for law in the US, Canada and the EU, the US has taken a different road than Canada and the EU.
Lieneke, The vast majority of Canadians support the death penalty: Canadians Are As Likely As Americans To Support Death Penalty: Poll

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Old 09-11-2016, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,166 posts, read 1,749,261 times
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Okay, Lieneke, it looks like you and I are talking about two different things. I'm talking about a legal system; you're talking about differences in criminal law, which is only a small part of a legal system. So let me explain my position as to what I mean by "legal system."

As I have said before, Canada uses a common-law legal system, like the US. This is why I said that our two systems were similar.

A common-law legal system uses the law of precedent; that is, decisions follow similar-fact decisions that have happened before. Sometimes, they build upon it: notice how Whiten v Pilot Insurance Co, 2002 SCC 18, [2002] 1 S.C.R. 595 builds upon Hill v Church of Scientology of Toronto, [1995] 2 S.C.R. 1130, in regards to principles regarding punitive damages. Sometimes, the old law is found to be invalid and the decision is overturned; see, for example how Wallace v United Grain Growers Ltd., [1997] 3 SCR 701 has been rendered pretty much toothless by Honda Canada Inc. v Keays, [2008] 2 SCR 362. And sometimes, they establish and clarify things, as you will see in the development of the moral rights doctrine in Tataryn v. Tataryn Estate, [1994] 2 SCR 807.

Heck, sometimes, we bring in decisions from other common-law countries. Carlill v. Carbolic Smoke Ball Company, [1892] EWCA Civ. 1, [1893] 1 QB 256, is an English decision that is still taught in law school contracts classes in all the common-law world (including the US) to this day. Or you might examine Victoria Park Racing and Recreation Grounds Co Ltd v. Taylor, (1936) 37 SR (NSW) 322, from Australia. More recently, the intersection of intellectual property rights and parody was nicely shaped by Mattel v. MCA Records, 296 F.3d 894 (9th Cir. 2002), which our American friends gave us. None of these are Canadian decisions, but as they come from common-law jurisdictions, they could be persuasive (but never binding) in ours.

You will notice that none of the decisions I've mentioned so far are criminal in nature. That's intentional; to inform you that "the law" is more than just the criminal law. It pervades every aspect of your life, from the coffee you bought at Starbucks today (contract law) to buying a house or car (contract and property), to rear-ending another car (tort), to "why can't Ottawa shut down the Alberta oil sands?" (constitutional). Want to incorporate your small business in order to protect yourself personally from creditors hounding you when your business can't pay its bills? You're looking at corporate law. Want to appeal your property tax assessment, or advance a claim under human rights legislation? You're looking at administrative law. And it should be no surprise that all these things, governed by precedent, exist in the USA too. Why? Because both the USA and Canada use the same legal system: common-law.

You might contrast the common-law system of the US and Canada (and others) with a civil-law system. This is the system used in Europe (with the exception of the UK and Ireland) and the province of Quebec and the state of Louisiana. Here, precedent plays no role, all the rules are codified (yes, even those for private-law matters such as contract, property, and tort), and the judge makes a decision based on how the facts stack up against the rules. He or she rarely to never uses precedent, as a judge in a common-law jurisdiction would.

Enough for now, and I will address your other remarks regarding specifics of criminal law in a future post. Right now, I hope you can see that when you mention "legal system," I immediately think of "a common-law legal system or a civil-law legal system?" as opposed to "double jeopardy and death penalty." But I will address your remarks on those later.
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Old 09-11-2016, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,166 posts, read 1,749,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
In Canada, similar to the EU, the prosecution can appeal a verdict. In the US, there's something called double jeopardy that prevents the prosecution from appealing a conviction even if new evidence comes to light that confirms guilt. That, in itself, is a significant difference.
You are aware that in Canada, we have the same double jeopardy rule? See Charter s. 11 (h).

Your question about appeals is valid though, so let's explore that.

An appeal, in the US as in Canada, turns on a question of law. It never turns on a question of fact; those are settled at the trial level. So an appeal in each country is never a do-over of the trial (thus rendering moot the "double-jeopardy" argument).

Understand, first, what a trial is: it finds the facts. Then, the trial judge applies the law to those facts, and renders a decision. Sometimes, the trial judge errs in law, which gives rise to an appeal.

An appeal always asks for a justification of how the law was applied to the facts found at trial, and argues as to how the law was wrongly applied. If the Canadian Crown finds an error in the law applied, then of course, it is entitled to ask for an appeal. It is not entitled to a do-over of the trial. This is not double-jeopardy as per Charter s. 11 (h), as I think you will agree. All the Crown can argue is an error in law. Not in fact.

True, the Supreme Court of Canada has sent cases back to be tried de novo, (as the Supreme Court of the United States has, see for example Gideon v. Wainwright, 372 U.S. 335 (1963)) but with strict conditions, such as "the Crown cannot use evidence illegally obtained under s. 8 of the Charter, as per Charter s. 24(2)," which may cause the Crown to withdraw the matter entirely. The de novo principle means that double jeopardy does not come into play. And if it does--then how do you explain Gideon v. Wainwright in the US system?

Once again, an appellate argument uses precedent (common-law system, just like the US), and that's pretty much all it does. Having explained all this, I must ask: How different are the legal systems of the US and Canada?

Last edited by ChevySpoons; 09-11-2016 at 03:47 AM..
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Old 09-11-2016, 04:44 AM
 
48 posts, read 32,711 times
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It's not as interesting. No offense intended but I rather go to Japan, Cuba, Argentina, Portugal, Hong kong, India and a huge etc. Than go to Toronto.
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Old 09-11-2016, 05:02 AM
BMI
 
Location: Ontario
7,262 posts, read 4,492,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleff89 View Post
It's not as interesting. No offense intended but I rather go to Japan, Cuba, Argentina, Portugal, Hong kong, India and a huge etc. Than go to Toronto.
Crazy thing is you get a bit of all those cultures and more in Toronto

Toronto population is over 50 percent foreign born...a virtual United Nations

So, you can save a pile of money and hassles ....just visit Toronto
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,839 posts, read 1,693,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI View Post
Crazy thing is you get a bit of all those cultures and more in Toronto

Toronto population is over 50 percent foreign born...a virtual United Nations

So, you can save a pile of money and hassles ....just visit Toronto
Yes, but Toronto has running water, functioning toilets, and every other incect isn't out there to kill you. Boring.
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Old 09-11-2016, 08:12 AM
 
6,467 posts, read 4,066,328 times
Reputation: 16672
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI View Post
Crazy thing is you get a bit of all those cultures and more in Toronto

Toronto population is over 50 percent foreign born...a virtual United Nations

So, you can save a pile of money and hassles ....just visit Toronto
So you feel like you've been to all those countries and don't have any interest in foreign travel...because you've been to Toronto?

Funny, I live in Southern California where we also have a huge mixture of foreign cultures, but I still don't feel I've been to Vietnam, China, Iran, etc.
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
11,723 posts, read 8,296,447 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
Sure, if they live there, but maybe not so much to tourists. When I go on an international vacation, whether or not the country's citizens have state-subsidized health care is not really the first thing on my mind. And of course no one wants to be a victim of crime, but oddly enough most Americans don't live their daily lives in constant fear of crime. It's not like they cross the border into Canada and go, "Ah, at last I can relax, I'm in a country with low crime!"

Or maybe hockey was one of the two important things you were referring to?
Yeah, I think Hollywood has a lot to do with this perception of crime in the US. I was born and raised in Boston and you would think that the city is one huge noir crime novel the way it's been portrayed in films like The Town, Gone Baby Gone, Mystic River and The Departed. Our accents aren't even as bad as they are presented in movies.

I live in Dorchester and I have very little fear of being victimized here.
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Land Of Smiles
293 posts, read 161,589 times
Reputation: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI View Post
Crazy thing is you get a bit of all those cultures and more in Toronto

Toronto population is over 50 percent foreign born...a virtual United Nations

So, you can save a pile of money and hassles ....just visit Toronto
I think you are not serious and just joking. But if you are serious, you need to travel more to see the difference. Unless, of course, the definition of the culture for you is just a food consumption.

For me - it is to see how people live, to learn about their religion, to learn about their language (and, maybe, learn their language), make new friends.

From my experience - people who came to Toronto adjust their behavior to the local "standards" and quite different from the people living in their countries of birth. And in most cases they stick to their own creating ethnic ghettos.

All these things are only about people. And what about the scenery?
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