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Old 10-23-2016, 01:31 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,974 posts, read 6,288,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
that's just symbolic.

Any military action would get the same results with no Canadian involvement (particularly as Canada almost never has an independent military action without US involvement). If Canada spends $0 in national defense, it will make zero difference to its own security, or world affairs.

in sum, it is not about the two are friendly with each other that defense if unnecessary. It is about one completely crushing the other overwhelming the other that any sort of "defense" is meaningless.
I'm sure PM's Borden and King would beg to differ. I would think that 1914-16 and 1939-41 qualifies as independent Canadian action without U.S. involvement.

As far as Canada being powerless against the U.S. you did rather well between 1812 and 1814. And Israel does rather well against the vast numerical and financial superiority of its neighbors. When your first military loss is your last it concentrates the mind wonderfully on victory.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:57 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,281,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I'm sure PM's Borden and King would beg to differ. I would think that 1914-16 and 1939-41 qualifies as independent Canadian action without U.S. involvement.

As far as Canada being powerless against the U.S. you did rather well between 1812 and 1814. And Israel does rather well against the vast numerical and financial superiority of its neighbors. When your first military loss is your last it concentrates the mind wonderfully on victory.
Come on, not 1812 again. That was British vs Americans, when the US was hardly 40 years old and nowhere near the peak of its time. Are you kidding me ? At that time, US GDP was 1/3 of that of UK/France and similar to Spain's. And you used that as an example?

Even during WWI Canadians soldiers were largely part of the British forces. As WWII, it was a world war, and Canada participated among a bunch of others. It was an active force but hardly any indispensable one. Very few textbooks world wide even talk about Canada's role. Most probably assume it was not in the war at all.

It is hard for Canadians to admit the world would be absolutely no different without the Canadian army, even for Canada itself. But it is true.
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:10 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Come on, not 1812 again. That was British vs Americans, when the US was hardly 40 years old and nowhere near the peak of its time. Are you kidding me ? At that time, US GDP was 1/3 of that of UK/France and similar to Spain's. And you used that as an example?

Even during WWI Canadians soldiers were largely part of the British forces. As WWII, it was a world war, and Canada participated among a bunch of others. It was an active force but hardly any indispensable one. Very few textbooks world wide even talk about Canada's role. Most probably assume it was not in the war at all.

It is hard for Canadians to admit the world would be absolutely no different without the Canadian army, even for Canada itself. But it is true.
I wouldn't call Vimy Ridge a miniscule contribution. In addition, Juno Beach, Beaumont Hammel, the Teheran embassy rescue. And a lot more. Don't overly denigrate your own country.
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:33 PM
 
18,327 posts, read 10,398,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I wouldn't call Vimy Ridge a miniscule contribution. In addition, Juno Beach, Beaumont Hammel, the Teheran embassy rescue. And a lot more. Don't overly denigrate your own country.
He just can't help himself. It's in his DNA.
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Old 10-24-2016, 05:09 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,936 posts, read 70,745,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zortation View Post
Canadians just feel good because we have a beefcake PM.
This, lol.
Also, they don't have nutjobs running for PM, and they don't have an armed citizenry. Lots to feel good and safe about.


BTW, OP, where in the Sunday Times was that? I missed it.
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Old 10-24-2016, 05:11 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,936 posts, read 70,745,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I wouldn't call Vimy Ridge a miniscule contribution. In addition, Juno Beach, Beaumont Hammel, the Teheran embassy rescue. And a lot more. Don't overly denigrate your own country.
That was extremely cool! It made a great film. Go, Canucks!
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Old 10-24-2016, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
That was extremely cool! It made a great film. Go, Canucks!
If you mean Argo, it was very inaccurate and played down Canada's part.
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Old 10-24-2016, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,703 posts, read 8,775,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
He just can't help himself. It's in his DNA.
True, and I would also suggest ignorant of Canada's military history and of peacekeeping. He seems to not understand the sacrifices made.

I think his history lessons should start with Billy Bishop.
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:14 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
If you mean Argo, it was very inaccurate and played down Canada's part.
I read Argo as a book. The book did not play down Canada's heroic and ultimately decent role.
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:20 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,974 posts, read 6,288,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This, lol.
Also, they don't have nutjobs running for PM, and they don't have an armed citizenry. Lots to feel good and safe about.
Well they had Stockwell Day in 2000. And in 1988 or 1989 a lone First Nations person in the Manitoba Parliament derailed Meech Lake accords. The subsequent Charlottetown Accords were voted down in a public referendum.

And former PM King talked to his long-dead mother in seances and to his dog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
BTW, OP, where in the Sunday Times was that? I missed it.
A version of this article appears in print on October 18, 2016, on page A12 of the New York edition with the headline: Canadians Tell the U.S.: Hang In There, Neighbor. (from bottom of link here, Sympathetic Canadians Have a Message for Americans: You Guys Are Great).
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