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Old 10-23-2016, 03:06 PM
 
3,431 posts, read 3,047,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
on the surface apparently so.

However, such rankings are probably measured in quantity (kg per year). We all know the Italians usually have a tiny espresso while Americans/Canadians have their giant grandes "Cafe Americano". It is like Sushi and Sashimi are precious special occasion food in Japan, while in Canada and America they come most frequently in the form of "all you can eat buffet" style, which is almost unheard of in Japan.
Well, the Netherlands ranked #1, so I guess they drink more dishwashing water per capita than Canadians? Apparently we aren't that bad, then!

Tim Hortons is ubiquitous in the Maritime provinces, where it's true, there's no Italian-style café culture. Or very little, outside Halifax. It's the North American diner-style coffee tradition... you can still find greasy spoon diners where you can go in on a foggy night, sit at a counter, and order a steaming cup of joe, very film noir.... Europeans don't have that tradition of enjoying strong, but terrible, coffee.

Korean and Japanese café culture is eclectic, a hybrid of Euro style coffee, American chains, and traditional tea drinking... I kind of like the Maxim instant coffees from Korea. I also like Cha teas.

I've never developed a taste for those chain store mixtures of ice, caramel syrup, whipped cream, and a little bit of coffee, though. Yuck.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,685 posts, read 8,750,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Hi Nat, I am not in Lyon. Lyon, a French city of Vancouver's size, France's gastronomy capital, has 7 starbucks as far as I know, 100 fewer than Vancouver.

Also: geography is not the reason here. Otherwise you can't explain why France has 97 and Britain has 800. It is about

1) bad taste about coffee
2) how Americanized (I mean it in the most negative way).
Geography has EVERTHING to do with it. Most US franchises start their out of US ventures in Canada. Sometimes they take, sometimes, like Target, they don't.

The UK like Canada ( except of course Quebec ) is another English Speaking market where if you are expanding it may be easier. Also the Brits watch a lot of US TV and movies, and possibly were aware of Starbucks because of that.

Now I will agree that MANY in the UK and Canada and the USA have no idea what a real cup of coffee should be like. Or have never had the stunningly beautiful Italian espresso done correctly, but so what? Starbucks and Tim Horton aren't my " cup of coffee " LOL
I'm not sure though why you feel the need to make this an issue. Is it some sort of superior complex? Are you hanging around with the snobby Europeans who down their noses at anything English or anything across the pond?

Americanized. Ya, the French...I've heard them saying silly things like " oh it is no us who are in the Mcdonald's, it's the American tourists" blah, blah, blah. Well I went to a McDonald's in Lyon once just to see. LOL. It was FULL of French. That and Hamburger Quick n'est-ce pas?
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,774 posts, read 5,121,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
but this "take it all from America" (which Canada already does in every area: clothing brands, fast food, music, TV) is not going to help anything either. What is a Canadian thing to do? very little.

I don't mind it, but the excessive number of it IS a problem due to a variety of reasons. For example, a predominant chain largely prevents local business from making it at all (same applies for Tim Horton's). And kids are brainwashed into believe starbucks = coffee.
That's totally expected. Canada is right next to America and is culturally very similar, of course it'd be the easiest foreign market to break in for American companies, no matter how crap they might be. England is basically like an American exclave hanging off the coast of France, it's of course the second easiest market to develop.

It's the same everywhere. Countries that are close culturally or geographically could more easily expand their influence in one another. It's like how Taiwan is pretty much the only overseas market for Chinese TV shows and how China is the only overseas market for (crap) Taiwanese pop music. Ok there's Singapore but nothing beyond.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:33 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Geography has EVERTHING to do with it. Most US franchises start their out of US ventures in Canada. Sometimes they take, sometimes, like Target, they don't.

The UK like Canada ( except of course Quebec ) is another English Speaking market where if you are expanding it may be easier. Also the Brits watch a lot of US TV and movies, and possibly were aware of Starbucks because of that.

Now I will agree that MANY in the UK and Canada and the USA have no idea what a real cup of coffee should be like. Or have never had the stunningly beautiful Italian espresso done correctly, but so what? Starbucks and Tim Horton aren't my " cup of coffee " LOL

I have to totally agree with you too.....

However, is not a matter of "superiority complex", European cuisine experience is, for a lot of reasons (and history plays a big part in it) simply much, much better than Northamerica, there is a culture of food that we simply lack in this continent.
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:22 AM
 
34,377 posts, read 41,463,803 times
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Living the North American lifestyle i get my coffee where ever is convenient,sometimes its Timmies,MacDonalds,Starbucks,Second Cup or the Petro Canada gas station, while i maybe missing what some may call the ultimate coffee experience all i want is a cup of coffee and not some pretentious expensive exclusive concoction.
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pennsylvania / Dull Germany
2,214 posts, read 2,632,455 times
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Coffee in the Netherlands varies a lot, while there are many places with excellent italian Coffee, there are also many places with cheap and blah instant coffee. Many places offer free coffee (supermarkets, offices etc.), maybe thats why the consumption is so high? My current boss is from the Netherlands and drinks like 8-10 cups per day, usually instant or Nespresso.
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:49 AM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,669,089 times
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I don't see what's the big deal here. The only Starbucks that I found that is inappropriately located is the one inside the Forbidden City in Beijing. It was there in my last visit to the Forbidden City, but I believe they already closed the store.
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,620 posts, read 3,978,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Dakota

Not really surprising. In Italy or France, you can get a better Coffee for $1 at every corner, why should one go to a Hipsterish Starbucks place to pay $4. Starbucks is only successful where there is no real coffee culture and few traditional alternatives.

Good coffee, from my experience, never comes from any "chain". It comes from the Italian cafe next door.
Starbucks tend to do well at Transport hubs such as rail stations, airports, busy office and retail zones where people don't have much time and just want something warm to take out and drink quickly.

In terms of the figures, Canada might have the most Starbucks but Starbucks are only one brand, in the UK for instance the market is dominsted by Costa rather than Starbucks. It also should be noted that in the UK whilst there are nearly 5,000 big High Street Coffee Chians but this only accounts for 25% (one quarter) of the Market, and there are overall now over 20,000 Coffee outkets in the UK in what is now a £7.9 Billion Market. This future number of coffee outlets in the UK is also predicted to reach 30,000 by 2025.

Costa Coffee, Starbucks or Caffe Nero: UK's favourite coffee shop revealed | Metro News

Starbucks Trails Costa in Booming U.K. Coffee-Shop Market: Chart - Bloomberg

Coffee shops stir £7.9bn into market as café culture dominates - Telegraph

Pic Link

Last edited by Brave New World; 10-24-2016 at 07:34 AM..
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,343,960 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Geography has EVERTHING to do with it. Most US franchises start their out of US ventures in Canada. Sometimes they take, sometimes, like Target, they don't.

The UK like Canada ( except of course Quebec ) is another English Speaking market where if you are expanding it may be easier. Also the Brits watch a lot of US TV and movies, and possibly were aware of Starbucks because of that.

Now I will agree that MANY in the UK and Canada and the USA have no idea what a real cup of coffee should be like. Or have never had the stunningly beautiful Italian espresso done correctly, but so what? Starbucks and Tim Horton aren't my " cup of coffee " LOL
I'm not sure though why you feel the need to make this an issue. Is it some sort of superior complex? Are you hanging around with the snobby Europeans who down their noses at anything English or anything across the pond?

Americanized. Ya, the French...I've heard them saying silly things like " oh it is no us who are in the Mcdonald's, it's the American tourists" blah, blah, blah. Well I went to a McDonald's in Lyon once just to see. LOL. It was FULL of French. That and Hamburger Quick n'est-ce pas?
Even if they haven't warmed to Starbucks (yet), as you say this doesn't mean they don't feel the pull of more plebean delights. The last time I was in Italy it was shocking to see how the drink of choice for groups of young people out for dinner seemed to be Coca-Cola (big 750 ml or 1 L bottles right on the table).

Where I live in Quebec, unless you are in a fast food place like McDo, drinking soft drinks (especially that conspicuously) with your meal is seen as totally passé, uncool and uncouth by young people.
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:24 AM
 
2,560 posts, read 2,179,030 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Even if they haven't warmed to Starbucks (yet), as you say this doesn't mean they don't feel the pull of more plebean delights. The last time I was in Italy it was shocking to see how the drink of choice for groups of young people out for dinner seemed to be Coca-Cola (big 750 ml or 1 L bottles right on the table).

Where I live in Quebec, unless you are in a fast food place like McDo, drinking soft drinks (especially that conspicuously) with your meal is seen as totally passé, uncool and uncouth by young people.
Pretty common in Germany too. When I was studying uni in Berlin, my roommates would have Coca-Cola for breakfast. For dinner, we'd have apple juice mixed with fizzy drinks. In fact, Germans tend love anything that contains fizzy bubbles.
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