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Old 11-11-2016, 05:13 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,996 times
Reputation: 1256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post

So YOUR scenario of being at work in Canada and having your gun with you or on you is not a realistic scenario?
Back to square one...I asked BruSan with his anti-gun rhetoric if a guy is shooting in a mall in its direction if he would want someone with a gun next to him or rather getting a bullet in that specific situation...Canada or US does not matter.....I was not saying that someone in Canada could be armed next to him.....unfortunately that is not possible up north....

To sum it up it is possible for a crazy person to shoot people in a mall in Canada with a rifle....but it is not possible to have a legally armed citizen in that mall to stop him.

A firefight may or may not ensure...sure...what roll of the dice do you prefer??


By the way, the "crazy hero" scenario does happen in the US, not to mention crime stopped by firearms...and often these cases are not reported or reported on footnotes in the mainstream media....
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Old 11-11-2016, 05:26 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,996 times
Reputation: 1256
Nat...

Piers Morgan vs. Jesse Ventura on gun control, including the mall shooting scenario...on CNN, not exactly a right wing propaganda outlet....

Listen to the final reaction by the public....priceless....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxNenz7q_eY
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Old 11-11-2016, 05:34 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,996 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
"There have been more total mass shooting incidents and deaths in the 11 years starting with 2005 than there were in the previous 23 years combined."

Mass Shootings Have Become More Common In The U.S. | FiveThirtyEight

...what it counts is the total.....gun violence at historic low...mass shootings are a fraction of the total number....they do make the headlines but they are statistically are a minuscule subset....and, interestingly enough, they tend to happen in "gun free zones"....the shooters know better...
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Old 11-11-2016, 06:17 PM
 
18,273 posts, read 10,374,392 times
Reputation: 13332
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Back to square one...I asked BruSan with his anti-gun rhetoric if a guy is shooting in a mall in its direction if he would want someone with a gun next to him or rather getting a bullet in that specific situation...Canada or US does not matter.....I was not saying that someone in Canada could be armed next to him.....unfortunately that is not possible up north....

To sum it up it is possible for a crazy person to shoot people in a mall in Canada with a rifle....but it is not possible to have a legally armed citizen in that mall to stop him.

A firefight may or may not ensure...sure...what roll of the dice do you prefer??


By the way, the "crazy hero" scenario does happen in the US, not to mention crime stopped by firearms...and often these cases are not reported or reported on footnotes in the mainstream media....
Aw c'mon Saturno....... r-u back to me again with accusation of "rhetoric" while your oft-repeated fallacious stuff is pure fact?

Mass shootings as investigated by USA Today some mass shootings have gone unreported as there is no universal state-wide requirement to report them as such: USA TODAY | BEHIND THE BLOODSHED: THE UNTOLD STORY OF AMERICA?S MASS KILLINGS

Give it up man. We can (and already have done numerous times) go around and around on this forever.

I'm NOT anti-gun. Firearms have their place in the modern world of a civilized society.. Hunting varmint or vermin such as feral hogs and while I do not sport hunt large game anymore (outgrew that one by the mid 70's) lots still enjoy it and I would not bat an eye at someone carrying something like a .45 ACP (.44 mag better yet) as a back up to their long gun while in moose or grizzly country; the law in Canada however says otherwise to that scenario so nobody I know of today still do.

Some northern BC horseback hunters and guides I've known often pack a modern lever gun or short barrel defender slug loaded shot gun as back up in the high country more for cats than any other threat as horses tend to sense bears (they stink) and moose far sooner than a 'crouched above you' cat on a ledge.

Sport range shooting is something to which many families gravitate as well and the competition that can come from that is healthy in a character building nature. I marvel at professional skeet competitors and the better ones abilities to hit multiple clays on the fly. Could watch them all day.

The mindset that would suggest you carry around a personal firearm as insurance seems completely acceptable to you whereas my point, my sole point, in discussing this with you is that would represent a failed state of society to the average Canadian who would be ashamed to admit his country had gotten to that state he felt it prudent to carry around a lump of metal in his pants.

You cannot seem to accept that viewpoint without referring to the words rant, hysteria or the latest; rhetoric while you carry on with hypothetical nonsense of your fantasy shoot out in a mall in Canada.

It's hypothetically possible and of the same statistical probability I might fall out of an airplane someday but I'm damned sure not going to wear a parachute every day of my life in anticipation of the event being possible today, tomorrow or EVER.
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:12 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,996 times
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[quote=BruSan;46161632]Aw c'mon Saturno....... r-u back to me again with accusation of "rhetoric" while your oft-repeated fallacious stuff is pure fact?
{/quote}

I did not say anything fallacious

Quote:
Mass shootings as investigated by USA Today some mass shootings have gone unreported as there is no universal state-wide requirement to report them as such: USA TODAY | BEHIND THE BLOODSHED: THE UNTOLD STORY OF AMERICA?S MASS KILLINGS
The last things that go "unreported" are mass shootings...murder rates includes them...

Quote:
Give it up man. We can (and already have done numerous times) go around and around on this forever.
There is nothing "to give up"..I keep my opinions, you keep yours.


Quote:
The mindset that would suggest you carry around a personal firearm as insurance seems completely acceptable to you whereas my point, my sole point, in discussing this with you is that would represent a failed state of society to the average Canadian who would be ashamed to admit his country had gotten to that state he felt it prudent to carry around a lump of metal in his pants.
There is no "failed state of society" in the US....in your opinion but not in reality....having the ability to carry a firearm does not make a society "inferior" or "failed"..that is silly.

Quote:
You cannot seem to accept that viewpoint without referring to the words rant, hysteria or the latest; rhetoric while you carry on with hypothetical nonsense of your fantasy shoot out in a mall in Canada.
I accept anybody viewpoint...just do not judge a society as "failed" because is more permissive when it comes to gun laws.

Quote:
I might fall out of an airplane someday but I'm damned sure not going to wear a parachute every day of my life in anticipation of the event being possible today, tomorrow or EVER.
Good....so, again, stop judging or "analyzing" someone that does want to carry that parachute....
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,917 posts, read 3,635,727 times
Reputation: 12869
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
well, it is just the same reason we try to build a $3b one stop subway line in scarborough. lol.
electoral college is stupid.

People should just accept it quietly. This is how democracy works, big surprise. You do get to pick the result. Actually, this election makes me believe, for the first time, it is actually voters who decide the US president, not the rigged system.

Additionally, I suggest those "morally superior" white collars wait until Trump actually does something they hate before all this nonesense violence and bitterness. I don't think he is going to do anything stupid. I do hope you will do two things he promised

1) pull back from this globalization thing. At least this crazy TPP is pretty much dead. I am not against immigration, but 65-70% of US greencards are given to family based immigrants, with 10% to real high skilled workers, which is moronic. In Canada it is over 60% to economic based and 70% for Australia. This is insane.

2) do as he said to pull back from Europe, Middle East and Asia Pacific and stop meddling things around. Stop policing the world. As a great power, the US should use its influence to actually solve issues and facilitate understanding, not to engage in proxy wars serving nothing but its own interest while killing innocents every day. Or go back to the isolation days.

Will he be discriminating hispanics, women or gays? That's extremely unlikely to happen. He is not going to be more popular from doing that, so why bother? Only a person with the IQ of a six year old will be naive enough to think he will actually do the things the said.

Stop crying. Life moves on. The US survived 8 years of Bush and 8 years of Obama. 8 years of Trump is ok.
I agree with you about the proxy wars. We have interfered the affairs of far too many countries, with disastrous results. Oddly, there are some of Trump's policies I actually agree with (trade, for one.)

And you are correct: we have survived many administrations, some good, some...not so much. Trump is a little (ha) different. He has an ability to stir up anger that is truly shocking. I know lots of people who voted for him, almost everyone I know in this town, in fact, and they are decent people. I do not fear them individually. What I fear is a mob mentality that drives good people to do horrible things.

I'm not entirely convinced you are right about discrimination. Hateful words got Trump where he is, so why on earth would anyone believe he won't follow up with hateful actions? Those who support him will love it, and who is there, really, to stop him? The Democrats are out of power in both houses of Congress, and most of the horrified Republicans who once opposed him have fallen in line, rather than face the wrath of a man who delights in not only defeating, but destroying, anyone with the audacity to oppose him, or offer up less than full allegiance. Even if he does not do all he said he will, I'm afraid the damage has already been done. Resentments have been inflamed, fears fanned, and all semblance of civility abandoned. I wonder sometimes if he realizes what he has unleashed in his followers, and what he will do if he finds he has a tiger by the tail.

Last of all, I agree with you about the electoral college. Not only does it disenfranchise the voters in most of our states, it doesn't guarantee that electors will vote for the candidate who won their state. There was a news story recently about an elector in Washington state who swore he would go against the vote there and refuse to support Hillary Clinton. In a closer election, this could have thrown the election to Trump. The fine for single-handedly choosing the next president? $1,000.
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,917 posts, read 3,635,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
I was very wrong with my assumption about the soft people in some cities. The people of Portland have shown that even snowflakes can get violent when the feral pack mentality kicks in.

Again, I implore our neighbors to the north to stay home or at least stay out of the cities until the progressive animals can be caged. It is not the Trump supporters who you should be fearing.
Please help me understand your logic. In a the post I was responding to, you referred to people who lacked the capacity to become violent as "sniveling snowflakes." Those sound to me like the words of a person who considers violence a show of strength, something to be respected and admired. If that is true, you should be very proud of the people who attacked that poor woman.

Be consistent. Say it slowly with me: "violence is always bad, mob behavior is always bad." You have a voice and opposable thumbs, you can do it!

Peace out,

Cat << progressive, not feral, not violent, and not weak.

Disclaimer: in case there is any doubt, I think what was done to that woman was horrible. Violence is never the answer.

Last edited by Catgirl64; 11-12-2016 at 05:52 AM..
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Old 11-12-2016, 06:32 AM
 
2,567 posts, read 1,336,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
Please help me understand your logic. In a the post I was responding to, you referred to people who lacked the capacity to become violent as "sniveling snowflakes." Those sound to me like the words of a person who considers violence a show of strength, something to be respected and admired. If that is true, you should be very proud of the people who attacked that poor woman.

Be consistent. Say it slowly with me: "violence is always bad, mob behavior is always bad." You have a voice and opposable thumbs, you can do it!

Peace out,

Cat << progressive, not feral, not violent, and not weak.

Disclaimer: in case there is any doubt, I think what was done to that woman was horrible. Violence is never the answer.
I viewed them as soft and defenseless, cowering in their safe spaces, unwilling to protect themselves. However, I have learned that when they join the wolf pack, they become nasty wolves. They become feral human beings.

Not all progressives are feral, but 99% of those behaving as such share the progressive mindset.
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:11 AM
 
18,273 posts, read 10,374,392 times
Reputation: 13332
[quote=saturno_v;46164643]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Aw c'mon Saturno....... r-u back to me again with accusation of "rhetoric" while your oft-repeated fallacious stuff is pure fact?
{/quote}

I did not say anything fallacious



The last things that go "unreported" are mass shootings...murder rates includes them...



There is nothing "to give up"..I keep my opinions, you keep yours.




There is no "failed state of society" in the US....in your opinion but not in reality....having the ability to carry a firearm does not make a society "inferior" or "failed"..that is silly.

I accept anybody viewpoint...just do not judge a society as "failed" because is more permissive when it comes to gun laws.

Good....so, again, stop judging or "analyzing" someone that does want to carry that parachute....
Your hypothetical mall scenario is completely fallacious when you use it to draw an inevitable conclusion.

You are not indicating acceptance of any viewpoint other than your own with the use of adjectives such as "rant", "hysteria", and "rhetoric" attached to describing those.

Having the ability to carry is one thing. Having the desire to for whatever reason is quite another. No it's not silly to suggest that there are many more societies that would claim it indicative of a failure than there are would laud it as progress. It's "silly" to suggest otherwise.

I'm not in any way "judging" your society as failed by stating Canadians would judge theirs being in a state of failure should the carrying of a firearm become a prudent option.

Aside from your uncanny ability to make leaps of conclusion based upon statement unspoken; you really should stop erecting those strawmen as fast as you can. You keep going back and repeating the incorrect conclusions you've arrived at in prior discussions as though they were irrefutable fact though proven wrong.

I'll stop mentioning what a majority of people other than Americans know and take for fact that with the highest incarceration rate of the entire world housing no less than 22 % of the entire world's prisoner population, the lowest literacy rate of the developed world with 32 million of you unable to read or write and fully 21% of you not able to do so above 5th grade level, the degree of racial strife and it's attendant riots along with the now violent protests over an election result requiring even more stocks of tear gas to be used, added to that the yearly deaths by firearms..... Your society is not in a state of failure ........you're just misunderstood.

Last edited by BruSan; 11-12-2016 at 07:43 AM..
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,917 posts, read 3,635,727 times
Reputation: 12869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
I viewed them as soft and defenseless, cowering in their safe spaces, unwilling to protect themselves. However, I have learned that when they join the wolf pack, they become nasty wolves. They become feral human beings.

Not all progressives are feral, but 99% of those behaving as such share the progressive mindset.
Prove it.
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