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Old 11-14-2016, 07:22 AM
 
18,274 posts, read 10,377,134 times
Reputation: 13336

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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
ok, you act as if you know all the facts.

Based on what facts do you know trump groped those women against their will?

Just so you know, it is for the plantiff to prove guilty of the defendent. So far, I don't see the proof.

you firmly believe it happened because

1- it is Trump, someone you hate. of course he is capable of doing it
2- multiple women, and women are supposed to be the weak gender we should protect

yet you disregard the fact the issue of
1- why didn't these women call it out when it happened? don't tell me they are "scared".
2- several women are already proved to have lied
3 - how come they came out one after another at the same time, who asked to? what might they get in return?

In all this, you disregard the fact that trump's personality or likeablity is completely irrelevant, neither are the number of the accusers. what matters is the EVIDENCE they are able to bring. If women can throw random molest accusation against men without any evidence, then the system essentially encourages slandering and smearing because they don't have any consequences anyway. It is stupid to assume "those poor women wouldn't brought it up if it hadn't happened" - this doesn't work. I have nothing against women, but men and women are equal and you can' just accuse someone of wrongdoing without any proof. Just saying something happened 20 years ago expecting people to take their word for it, that's just irresponsible.

Botti; We've been over and over this. Ad-infinitum.

Your core belief that men and women are "treated" equal as it applies to accusations of sexual impropriety denies the reality shown to you with past examples that not being the case being given large exposure.
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:27 AM
 
18,274 posts, read 10,377,134 times
Reputation: 13336
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
that seems to go both ways. How many times Trump was called a moron or even a fascist?

So you don't think Hilary Clinton is crooked and corrupt? You don't think she is warmongering? you don't think Wall St is her best friend?

Both candidates are bad. It just annoys me that pretend Clinton is far better than Trump. Even the popular votes show otherwise. American people are not so dumb after all.

The difference between the two is, Trump wants to do something (whether it is practical is another matter). Clinton knows and shows that she is not going to change a thing. All she wants is the presidency, to be the first female president, she thinks she deserves it, even entitled to it. I don't think the president should be someone who is as jaded as she is.

If it were Bernie Sanders, I am all supportive. Unfortunately the entire system wants to boost Hilary Clinton.
Hence the "throw the hand grenade into the outhouse" analogy I made somewhere on these boards.

It's not difficult to understand how the less informed can accede to their frustration and do so without regard to themselves getting splattered with the attendant brown shrapnel.

We get it.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
ok, you act as if you know all the facts.

Based on what facts do you know trump groped those women against their will?

Just so you know, it is for the plantiff to prove guilty of the defendent. So far, I don't see the proof.

you firmly believe it happened because

1- it is Trump, someone you hate. of course he is capable of doing it
2- multiple women, and women are supposed to be the weak gender we should protect

yet you disregard the fact the issue of
1- why didn't these women call it out when it happened? don't tell me they are "scared".
2- several women are already proved to have lied
3 - how come they came out one after another at the same time, who asked to? what might they get in return?

In all this, you disregard the fact that trump's personality or likeablity is completely irrelevant, neither are the number of the accusers. what matters is the EVIDENCE they are able to bring. If women can throw random molest accusation against men without any evidence, then the system essentially encourages slandering and smearing because they don't have any consequences anyway. It is stupid to assume "those poor women wouldn't brought it up if it hadn't happened" - this doesn't work. I have nothing against women, but men and women are equal and you can' just accuse someone of wrongdoing without any proof. Just saying something happened 20 years ago expecting people to take their word for it, that's just irresponsible.
Wrt women and sexual assault reporting, i wish you would educate yourself a bit on how women respond to that and actually consider all the reasons for the above. I don't mean about Trump specifically but in general. There s nothing in your list that couldn't equally apply to victims of assaults by non-famous people. I don't think you have a clear idea of just how badly some men can behave towards women. Maybe you were so well-brought up, botti, that you can't imagine it. I'd be hard-pressed to name a woman who hasn't been the recipient of a unwanted advance, whether that is something that is "borderline," or all out rape.

I myself in my early 20s had a young man of similar age, whom I did not know at all - he was the friend of a friend - reach out the arms length of space between us, with a large group of people standing all around at a traditional Manitoba social, and grab my breast. I can't imagine what possessed him to do that. We weren't even talking except in a general group way. No, I did not report it. I twisted his arm. I was shocked and I didn't know where this was coming from, and would have had no idea that this was termed sexual assault. And after that I did what a lot of women do, pretended it never happened.

I don't know if even today I would report something like this to the police. It would only have significance if the person who grabbed my breast declared on TV that he had never done such a thing and was running for public office. Then I might feel it in the public interest for the public to know what kind of man they were thinking of electing. It would be more about him blatantly lying than about the relatively minor thing that had happened.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:40 AM
 
68 posts, read 28,533 times
Reputation: 186
The thing I find most ironic about all the progressives wanting to move to Canada is that they want to move to...Canada. Why not Mexico or Panama? Chile or Colombia? The real answer is that they want to live in a predominately white country.

The further irony is that they want to move to a country that takes border security seriously and is very protectionist with limited immigration but rail against the Donald when he talks about these things.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:44 AM
 
34,384 posts, read 41,480,724 times
Reputation: 29863
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
So you don't think Hilary Clinton is crooked and corrupt? You don't think she is warmongering? you don't think Wall St is her best friend?

.
No i dont. what has she been charged with to merit the crooked and corrupt descriptors?
Benghazi has been vetted ad nauseum and shes been found to be guilty of no wrong doing.
The email issue was a tempest in a teapot that brought forth no reason for legal action.
her Clinton foundation has been so far just the target of baseless allegation.
The whole smear campaign was just a political strategy from the Trump camp which obviously many people fell for.
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Old 11-14-2016, 12:24 PM
 
5,191 posts, read 4,676,837 times
Reputation: 1562
Hate to say it, but check out where my not so fellow Americans look to target next.

Canada next to join the right wing uprising?

Remember at least this American gave you guys a heads up.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,690 posts, read 8,756,192 times
Reputation: 7304
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
No i dont. what has she been charged with to merit the crooked and corrupt descriptors?
Benghazi has been vetted ad nauseum and shes been found to be guilty of no wrong doing.
The email issue was a tempest in a teapot that brought forth no reason for legal action.
her Clinton foundation has been so far just the target of baseless allegation.
The whole smear campaign was just a political strategy from the Trump camp which obviously many people fell for.
Well, Botti is naive in many ways. He's slowly learning though.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,690 posts, read 8,756,192 times
Reputation: 7304
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Hate to say it, but check out where my not so fellow Americans look to target next.

Canada next to join the right wing uprising?

Remember at least this American gave you guys a heads up.
LOL

Some good posters in that thread, and the usual ignorant ones that really know nothing about Canada or it's politics, but comment anyway.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:39 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,265,341 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Well, Botti is naive in many ways. He's slowly learning though.
that's condescending. I think it is you who should be more open minded.

Trust me, I am very liberal. Pro gay rights, pro-marijuana legalization, pro-euthanasia, pro choice, anti-gun, anti-wall street/laisser faire, don't care about religion, agree with Canada's decision to welcome syria refugees, and from the start I supported Sanders.

but I can't stand Hilary Clinton. This is funny because I usually adore strong women (such as Angela Merkel). Whoever think she is liberal must be completely insane. She fits the democratic party just like how Trump fits the republican (an anti-free market, anti-globalization republic?)

Just because Clinton gave those touching speeches about women's right or ethnic equality doesn't mean she is a liberal. Honestly those are very easy to do just to gain popularity - a Miss Universe can do that. It boils down to one's real position when it comes to important issues, and I am afraid her cozy relationship with wall street and her love for external wars causing so many lost lives can't make me fond of her even a little bit. And the fact she still sticks with Bill Clinton pretending to be a loving couple endorsing each other makes me more sick of her personality. Such a fake woman. Even her smile is fake every time.

Yet still many can't see it through and was like "Hilary! Hilary" as if it were a sign of progressiveness. They think by voting for the first female president and rejecting a billionaire the media disdains somehow makes them morally superior. If someone voted for her purely out of abhorrence of Trump, I can somehow understand, but voting for her as an ideal candidate, that's just pathetic. I know many who didn't vote for Trump, but they couldn't bring themselves to voting for Clinton either, and I respect that.

And there are those who vote for her primarily because she is a woman, that's just as bad as if someone decides not to vote for her because she is a woman. It is time for the US to have a female president, what BS argument is that?
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:47 PM
 
2,561 posts, read 2,180,112 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
No i dont. what has she been charged with to merit the crooked and corrupt descriptors?
Benghazi has been vetted ad nauseum and shes been found to be guilty of no wrong doing.
The email issue was a tempest in a teapot that brought forth no reason for legal action.
her Clinton foundation has been so far just the target of baseless allegation.
The whole smear campaign was just a political strategy from the Trump camp which obviously many people fell for.
I know right? George Bush started 2 wars that killed 1 million + innocent Iraqi civilians. Where are the congressional hearings? Where are the GOP-led inquiries? Where are the FBI investigations?

Apparently when you slaughter 1 million innocent people in a foreign, third-world country that's okay and you have total immunity for life, but 6 Americans die in a terrorist attack in a foreign consulate that you are NOT even remotely responsible for in anyway, makes you a total criminal that deserves the death sentence. Go figure.

Was Hillary the head of state dept? Yes. Did she gun down those 6 Americans? No. Was she connected to the terrorists who gunned down those 6 Americans? No. Did she have a crystal ball that could foretell all future terrorist attacks that could take out American lives? No, no, and no.
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