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Old 11-23-2016, 10:18 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,072,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
So you don't think Hillary was the best liberal they could get? I don't know how far any self-identified liberal could get politically in the US where 'liberal' seems to be a four letter word. Don't get me wrong - I am not a fan of Hillary and I agree that the email server thing was serious. However, she has not been found guilty of wrong-doing and at a certain point, one has to accept that unless one is prepared to say that the entire legal system in the US is as corrupt as any third world nation, wouldn't you think?

But as far as Donald Trump goes, botti has basically said that only a fifth grader would believe most of he things Donald has said, which means that either the Donald is operating at a fifth grade level, or that people voted someone they believe to be a liar into the White House, neither of which I find very reassuring. Hillary at least has a clue about running a government while the Donald encourages America's traditional enemy to hack into her emails.

There's a saying that you should believe someone the first time they tell you who they are. Never mind the media - Donald has told everyone a lot about who he is in his very own words.

Vast majority of Trump voters did not literally believe the things that The Donald said....people are not that stupid to think that we would erect an actual physical wall between USA and Mexico.

Politicians promise all kind of stuff on a campaign trail....remember Obama promises in 2008??

Bernie actually could have won against Trump.

To me the Iraq war vote alone disqualifies Hillary from any consideration as a commander in chief of this nation.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Vast majority of Trump voters did not literally believe the things that The Donald said....people are not that stupid to think that we would erect an actual physical wall between USA and Mexico.

Politicians promise all kind of stuff on a campaign trail....remember Obama promises in 2008??

Bernie actually could have won against Trump.

To me the Iraq war vote alone disqualifies Hillary from any consideration as a commander in chief of this nation.
So people voted in a guy whom they don't believe? This is starting to sound like those defences some Christians make about the Bible - they literally believe some things and don't literally believe other things for seemingly arbitrary reasons. How do you decide to not believe he wants to build a literal wall but literally believe that he will somehow make America great again (whatever that means)?

The one thing I don't believe, although I sincerely hope I'm wrong, is that Donald Trump won't be involved in as many, if not more wars than other administrations. Do you think that Trump's supporters were not supportive, at the time, of going to war in Iraq? I don't recall many people not being supportive of the war in Iraq.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:38 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,072,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
So people voted in a guy whom they don't believe? This is starting to sound like those defences some Christians make about the Bible - they literally believe some things and don't literally believe other things for seemingly arbitrary reasons. How do you decide to not believe he wants to build a literal wall but literally believe that he will somehow make America great again (whatever that means)?

The one thing I don't believe, although I sincerely hope I'm wrong, is that Donald Trump won't be involved in as many, if not more wars than other administrations. Do you think that Trump's supporters were not supportive, at the time, of going to war in Iraq? I don't recall many people not being supportive of the war in Iraq.

People can believe generic policy orientation (renegotiation of trade deals, more control on illegal immigration, etc..) slogans are...slogans.

Definitely some of Trump supporters were for the Iraq war for sure.
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Old 11-24-2016, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,690 posts, read 8,756,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Vast majority of Trump voters did not literally believe the things that The Donald said....people are not that stupid to think that we would erect an actual physical wall between USA and Mexico.

Politicians promise all kind of stuff on a campaign trail....remember Obama promises in 2008??

Bernie actually could have won against Trump.

To me the Iraq war vote alone disqualifies Hillary from any consideration as a commander in chief of this nation.
This is disturbing. Certainly most intelligent people can discern some campaign promises as hopeful rather than doable. It happens in elections in Canada as well.

They are at least are in the category of reality. What's different here is that Trump's promises were not based in reality, were racist and totally inconsistent, depending on which way the wind was blowing his hair.

So yes, I think Trump supporters if not grossly misinformed, have thrown away basic morals for what? To make a point that is going to bite them.
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Old 11-24-2016, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
This is disturbing. Certainly most intelligent people can discern some campaign promises as hopeful rather than doable. It happens in elections in Canada as well.

They are at least are in the category of reality. What's different here is that Trump's promises were not based in reality, were racist and totally inconsistent, depending on which way the wind was blowing his hair.

So yes, I think Trump supporters if not grossly misinformed, have thrown away basic morals for what? To make a point that is going to bite them.
In other words, Donald Trump was right about one thing - he could walk down Fifth Avenue and shoot someone in broad daylight and a large sum of his supporters wouldn't believe what their own eyes and ears told them.
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Old 11-24-2016, 01:39 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,072,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
This is disturbing. Certainly most intelligent people can discern some campaign promises as hopeful rather than doable. It happens in elections in Canada as well.

They are at least are in the category of reality. What's different here is that Trump's promises were not based in reality, were racist and totally inconsistent, depending on which way the wind was blowing his hair.

So yes, I think Trump supporters if not grossly misinformed, have thrown away basic morals for what? To make a point that is going to bite them.

Many of the Trump campaign statements are not going to win any graciousness award for sure...however his support among minorities has been surprisingly strong all things considered....the Democrats and the media grossly underestimated the ground swell of his support...not all of his electorate is part of a "basket of deplorables"....actually I would say that is a small minority.

A lot of Latinos, for example, are against illegal immigration and blanket amnesty.
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Old 11-24-2016, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Many of the Trump campaign statements are not going to win any graciousness award for sure...however his support among minorities has been surprisingly strong all things considered....the Democrats and the media grossly underestimated the ground swell of his support...not all of his electorate is part of a "basket of deplorables"....actually I would say that is a small minority.

A lot of Latinos, for example, are against illegal immigration and blanket amnesty.
Wrt immigrants - I have noticed among my own people (Mennonites) that earlier immigrants and/or refugees were often prejudiced against later immigrants/refugees. I am not sure what the psychology behind that is but it certainly exists even without the 'illegal' part.
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Old 11-24-2016, 03:31 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,072,511 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Wrt immigrants - I have noticed among my own people (Mennonites) that earlier immigrants and/or refugees were often prejudiced against later immigrants/refugees. I am not sure what the psychology behind that is but it certainly exists even without the 'illegal' part.

The "psychology" is simple, doing things legally, waiting for your turn and paying taxes....either as a regular immigrant or refugee....I'm an immigrant and I do not appreciate people jumping the line...I paid thousands of dollars in legal fees during my immigration process.

Democrats were very naive thinking that Latinos/minorities were going to vote in block for them on a (perceived or real) softer illegal immigration stance.

For example, I had a casual discussion with two African refugee cab drivers in San Diego several weeks ago and both of them were strongly against illegal immigration.

It may surprise you but a lot of Latinos are against border jumpers.
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Old 11-24-2016, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,690 posts, read 8,756,192 times
Reputation: 7304
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Many of the Trump campaign statements are not going to win any graciousness award for sure...however his support among minorities has been surprisingly strong all things considered....the Democrats and the media grossly underestimated the ground swell of his support...not all of his electorate is part of a "basket of deplorables"....actually I would say that is a small minority.

A lot of Latinos, for example, are against illegal immigration and blanket amnesty.
Just because someone is a minority doesn't make them smart. Millions of Americans of all types have been voting against their own interests for years. So no, you vote for a deplorable, you are deplorable.

The only vicarious satisfaction I'll get is when this idiots finally realize Trump will do NOTHING for them.
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Old 11-24-2016, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,538,583 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
The "psychology" is simple, doing things legally, waiting for your turn and paying taxes....either as a regular immigrant or refugee....I'm an immigrant and I do not appreciate people jumping the line...I paid thousands of dollars in legal fees during my immigration process.

Democrats were very naive thinking that Latinos/minorities were going to vote in block for them on a (perceived or real) softer illegal immigration stance.

For example, I had a casual discussion with two African refugee cab drivers in San Diego several weeks ago and both of them were strongly against illegal immigration.

It may surprise you but a lot of Latinos are against border jumpers.
No, it doesn't surprise me that many Latinos are against border jumpers. But my post referenced prejudice I've seen by immigrants towards even legal immigrants here. It doesn't surprise me but it is odd.
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