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Old 11-27-2016, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,691 posts, read 6,537,402 times
Reputation: 8193

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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_wanderer View Post
Did I say something about US and right wing dictatorships? No, I was talking about Trudeau and his hypocritical approach to the liberal values. I oppose any kind of dictatorships, it is PM Trudeau (or his advisors, as he is probably not too smart for this) consider marxist dictatorship regime as something benign. It is so hypocritical... He tries to project himself and Canada as having higher moral values, yet makes a wonderful eulogy to one of the most famous dictators, that 20% of the population ran away from his legendary revolutionary rule.
You started off your post, as you have so many here, with references to "liberals." My reference to the US was based on the fact that this thread was begun by an American, with the usual knee-jerk reaction on the subject of Cuba, and I assumed that your references to liberals was made in the context of the OP. The fact is that countries trade all the time with other countries whose internal policies are despicable and offer condolences on the passing of leaders who should be going straight to hell. It is odd to single out Castro given the circumstances as though there's a moral high ground in despising Castro specifically, and others not at all.

I'm glad you dislike dictatorships of any kind. I do too. I'd really hate to see the US practise of delineating everyone into "liberal" and "conservative" camps take hold in Canada. It's okay to despise dictators and it's not that unusual for heads of state to offer condolences on the passing of other heads of state, regardless of whether they are liberal or conservative. Canada always had a relationship with Cuba unlike the U.S. I agree partially with Trudeau's words of condolence but I think he went a little too far with it, confusing his family's friendship with Castro, with the condolences of this country. It should have been worded differently, imo.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:33 PM
 
18,273 posts, read 10,374,392 times
Reputation: 13332
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
You started off your post, as you have so many here, with references to "liberals." My reference to the US was based on the fact that this thread was begun by an American, with the usual knee-jerk reaction on the subject of Cuba, and I assumed that your references to liberals was made in the context of the OP. The fact is that countries trade all the time with other countries whose internal policies are despicable and offer condolences on the passing of leaders who should be going straight to hell. It is odd to single out Castro given the circumstances as though there's a moral high ground in despising Castro specifically, and others not at all.

I'm glad you dislike dictatorships of any kind. I do too. I'd really hate to see the US practise of delineating everyone into "liberal" and "conservative" camps take hold in Canada. It's okay to despise dictators and it's not that unusual for heads of state to offer condolences on the passing of other heads of state, regardless of whether they are liberal or conservative. Canada always had a relationship with Cuba unlike the U.S. I agree partially with Trudeau's words of condolence but I think he went a little too far with it, confusing his family's friendship with Castro, with the condolences of this country. It should have been worded differently, imo.
This is it in a nutshell.

While a normal diplomatic expression of condolence towards the country of Cuba upon the death of Castro would be expected and unquestioned; his more personal condolences and honorariums should have been conveyed privately to the Castro family and not given on behalf of Canada or Canadians.

The kid took an opportunity to wax poetic on our dime. He screwed up and it likely won't be for the last time. Perhaps he's now learned to separate the personal from the political in at least one area.

Now....shall we resume comparing the morality of the two countries whose citizens are most aggrieved and vocal in this thread, or could we agree that given the history of both countries and how that juxtaposes to the courting of dictators and despots, Canada should take criticism from Americans in an advisory capacity only!
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Land Of Smiles
293 posts, read 161,851 times
Reputation: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
You started off your post, as you have so many here, with references to "liberals." My reference to the US was based on the fact that this thread was begun by an American, with the usual knee-jerk reaction on the subject of Cuba, and I assumed that your references to liberals was made in the context of the OP. The fact is that countries trade all the time with other countries whose internal policies are despicable and offer condolences on the passing of leaders who should be going straight to hell. It is odd to single out Castro given the circumstances as though there's a moral high ground in despising Castro specifically, and others not at all.

I'm glad you dislike dictatorships of any kind. I do too. I'd really hate to see the US practise of delineating everyone into "liberal" and "conservative" camps take hold in Canada. It's okay to despise dictators and it's not that unusual for heads of state to offer condolences on the passing of other heads of state, regardless of whether they are liberal or conservative. Canada always had a relationship with Cuba unlike the U.S. I agree partially with Trudeau's words of condolence but I think he went a little too far with it, confusing his family's friendship with Castro, with the condolences of this country. It should have been worded differently, imo.
I am not American and I live in Canada. I refer only to Canadian political scene. The problem with Trudeau (or those behind him) that he is a hypocrite, interesting in self enrichment, rather than promoting any kind of values. He promotes gender equality and LBGT issues in Africa, yet at the same time he visits the local mosques and supports Sharia traditions that have nothing to do with Western gender equality values. He embraces Syrian refugees, yet he forgets about huge problems with Canadian aboriginal population. He likes to idolize Chinese or Cuban regimes, yet speaks about democracy and liberty. And what is behind of all of these? Pay for Play parties with chinese billionaires, scandals about moving expenses of his advisors (which is probably a tip of much bigger iceberg), and more things to come.

Actions speak louder than words... The Soviet Union constitution during Stalin's regime was one of the most democratic in history, yet hundreds of thousands were in Gulag camps. Soviet Union was talking about peace and multiculturalism , yet has invaded numerous countries (Finland, Hungary, Czech Slovakia, Afghanistan) and executed the policy of state antisemitism.

Trudeau and his clique are hypocrites and not liberals at all... Their true values are likely close to those of the late Castro.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:42 PM
 
1,504 posts, read 631,510 times
Reputation: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
This is it in a nutshell.

While a normal diplomatic expression of condolence towards the country of Cuba upon the death of Castro would be expected and unquestioned; his more personal condolences and honorariums should have been conveyed privately to the Castro family and not given on behalf of Canada or Canadians.

The kid took an opportunity to wax poetic on our dime. He screwed up and it likely won't be for the last time. Perhaps he's now learned to separate the personal from the political in at least one area.

Now....shall we resume comparing the morality of the two countries whose citizens are most aggrieved and vocal in this thread, or could we agree that given the history of both countries and how that juxtaposes to the courting of dictators and despots, Canada should take criticism from Americans in an advisory capacity only!
I understood that when Harper took over he was briefed by the old school Bay Street banking boys. There was a protocol to be adhered too. I believe that Trudeau did not get the same briefing because the old conservatives on Bay Street had died off.

It is troublesome that Trudeau does not have skilled and wise handlers...The protocol whether in America is a non bias advisor is supposed screen or vet any statements that come out of the PMs mouth...seems the boy is running the show on his own.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:54 PM
 
18,273 posts, read 10,374,392 times
Reputation: 13332
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.Bachlow View Post
I understood that when Harper took over he was briefed by the old school Bay Street banking boys. There was a protocol to be adhered too. I believe that Trudeau did not get the same briefing because the old conservatives on Bay Street had died off.

It is troublesome that Trudeau does not have skilled and wise handlers...The protocol whether in America is a non bias advisor is supposed screen or vet any statements that come out of the PMs mouth...seems the boy is running the show on his own.
I can't argue with this.

My hope is that intelligence will eventually override ego and he'll realize that every time he opens his mouth he must give due consideration to the effect he hopes for versus the one achieved.

We are assuming he does not have access to wise handlers whereas it might be that he doesn't always ask for their guidance, or ignores their guidance.

Another hope is that examples such as this one that result in his ego getting a bashing by his fellow Canadians will stimulate more caution in the future.
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Old 11-27-2016, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Southern Quebec
1,284 posts, read 900,771 times
Reputation: 1873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Your Prime Minister can go straight to hell.

Words of Justin Trudeau:

It is with deep sorrow that I learned today of the death of Cuba’s longest serving President.

Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century. A legendary revolutionary and orator, Mr. Castro made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.

While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”.

I know my father was very proud to call him a friend and I had the opportunity to meet Fidel when my father passed away. It was also a real honour to meet his three sons and his brother President Raúl Castro during my recent visit to Cuba.

On behalf of all Canadians, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to the family, friends and many, many supporters of Mr. Castro. We join the people of Cuba today in mourning the loss of this remarkable leader.
I agree with you. Justine Trudeau has always annoyed me, the globe-trotting, metro-sexual Prime Minister, but he really fecked up this time, didn't he? I'm not at all happy, as a Canadian and having him represent our country.

I don't generally discuss politics, but Justine Trudeau is really something else.

Mr. Bean for Prime Minister!

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Old 11-27-2016, 05:12 PM
 
1,504 posts, read 631,510 times
Reputation: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I can't argue with this.

My hope is that intelligence will eventually override ego and he'll realize that every time he opens his mouth he must give due consideration to the effect he hopes for versus the one achieved.

We are assuming he does not have access to wise handlers whereas it might be that he doesn't always ask for their guidance, or ignores their guidance.

Another hope is that examples such as this one that result in his ego getting a bashing by his fellow Canadians will stimulate more caution in the future.
Well said. Presidents preside. Prime Ministers serve. Prime minister literally means First Servant. If you take on the positon of servant in service of a nation...that nation is your master- not vise versa. I think that it all goes back to his free and easy childhood being raised by a rich hippy mother. He is out of touch with reality..and not street wise. It will take more to show manhood than a boxing match with a nutritionally challenged native senator.
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Old 11-27-2016, 05:13 PM
 
1,504 posts, read 631,510 times
Reputation: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by daynet View Post
I agree with you. Justine Trudeau has always annoyed me, the globe-trotting, metro-sexual Prime Minister, but he really fecked up this time, didn't he? I'm not at all happy, as a Canadian and having him represent our country.

I don't generally discuss politics, but Justine Trudeau is really something else.

Mr. Bean for Prime Minister!
Mr. Bean would be a good choice...at least he knows how to work - or was that Pee Wee Herman?
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Old 11-27-2016, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,781,814 times
Reputation: 4619
Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Your Prime Minister can go straight to hell.

Words of Justin Trudeau:

It is with deep sorrow that I learned today of the death of Cuba’s longest serving President.

Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century. A legendary revolutionary and orator, Mr. Castro made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.

While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”.

I know my father was very proud to call him a friend and I had the opportunity to meet Fidel when my father passed away. It was also a real honour to meet his three sons and his brother President Raúl Castro during my recent visit to Cuba.

On behalf of all Canadians, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to the family, friends and many, many supporters of Mr. Castro. We join the people of Cuba today in mourning the loss of this remarkable leader.
I don't have any problem with what Justin said? A lot of people don't have an anti Castro opinion in Canada.
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Old 11-27-2016, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,781,814 times
Reputation: 4619
Default ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by daynet View Post
I agree with you. Justine Trudeau has always annoyed me, the globe-trotting, metro-sexual Prime Minister, but he really fecked up this time, didn't he? I'm not at all happy, as a Canadian and having him represent our country.

I don't generally discuss politics, but Justine Trudeau is really something else.

Mr. Bean for Prime Minister!
I am 100% happy with Justin Trudeau as the Prime Minister of Canada. If I was going to select someone to represent me and my values globally he is bang on the right person. I have seen him in person and he appears like a really authentically nice person.
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