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Old 12-07-2016, 06:57 AM
 
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Canada has been doing quite well in the area of education. Last year, it ranks #10 among 70 countries. PISA test measures 15 year old students knowledge in reading, math and science and is conducted annually. Canada ranks after Singapore, Hong Kong, S Korea, Japan/Taiwan (tie), Finland, Estonia, Netherlands and Switzerland

Here is some of the rankings of individual countries. Canada ranks 2 in reading, 7 in science and 10 in math. The US ranks 25 in reading, 24 in science and 40 in math. Singapore ranks #1 in all three categories.

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Old 12-07-2016, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Seminole County, FL
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LOL... That's a shame for the US. We're down with borderline 3rd world countries, although I'm not surprised at all. When I moved down here, I'd just completed 10th grade in Montreal in an advanced math program. I came here and was put inan advanced math class for 11th grade. It was stuff I'd done in 9th grade.
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:10 AM
 
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There is something suspect about this ranking when it comes to a reality I know very well, Italy.


Italian high school curricula is significantly "heavier" than Canada (or the US), it is a well known fact that Italian high school students are exposed to material that in Northamerica is often part of university programs.

I know of quite few cases of Italian exchange students in Canada and USA that were literally bored to death when put in classes that matched their grade year.

Italy has several "types" of high school programs, two generic non specialized ones (liceo classico and liceo scientifico) often called the "classic track", and other specialized ones, meaning that at the end you actually acquire a specific skillset that in Northamerica usually requires a degree (for example accounting, elementary school teaching, entry level building engineering, software engineering, etc...)

Italian traditional university degrees usually correspond to a master in Northamerica, only recently were introduced what are locally called the "mini degrees" (mini lauree) that are comparable to the bachelor of arts programs in the Anglo world.

Last edited by saturno_v; 12-07-2016 at 09:22 AM..
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
There is something suspect about this ranking when it comes to a reality I know very well, Italy.

Italian high school curricula is significantly "heavier" than Canada (or the US), it is a well known fact that Italian high school students are exposed to material that in Northamerica is often part of university programs.
That's probably because PISA tests problem solving skills instead of specific knowledge, it's not really what is taught in the curriculum but how it is taught. Proponents of problem solving say it is only about "developing competency" while opponents say you are only "teaching to the test". PISA doesn't measure how smart kids are or how much they know, it measures critical reasoning, data sufficiency issues, etc.
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:05 PM
 
Location: In transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
That's probably because PISA tests problem solving skills instead of specific knowledge, it's not really what is taught in the curriculum but how it is taught. Proponents of problem solving say it is only about "developing competency" while opponents say you are only "teaching to the test". PISA doesn't measure how smart kids are or how much they know, it measures critical reasoning, data sufficiency issues, etc.
Then how do you explain the fact that several East Asian countries/regions are near the top and they are known for their educational systems based on rote memorization?
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,762,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Canada has been doing quite well in the area of education. Last year, it ranks #10 among 70 countries. PISA test measures 15 year old students knowledge in reading, math and science and is conducted annually. Canada ranks after Singapore, Hong Kong, S Korea, Japan/Taiwan (tie), Finland, Estonia, Netherlands and Switzerland

Here is some of the rankings of individual countries. Canada ranks 2 in reading, 7 in science and 10 in math. The US ranks 25 in reading, 24 in science and 40 in math. Singapore ranks #1 in all three categories.
Based on your list, Canada is better than South Korea, Finland, Netherlands and Switzerland.

Using the average of the three categories

Singapore: 551.7
Hong Kong: 532.7
Japan: 528.7
Macao: 527.3
Estonia: 524.3
Taiwan/Canada: 523.7
Finland: 522.7
South Korea: 519.0
China: 514.3
New Zealand: 511.3
Ireland: 509.3
Slovenia: 509.3
Netherlands: 508.0
Germany: 508.0
Switzerland: 506.3
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:12 PM
 
1,373 posts, read 782,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
There is something suspect about this ranking when it comes to a reality I know very well, Italy.


Italian high school curricula is significantly "heavier" than Canada (or the US), it is a well known fact that Italian high school students are exposed to material that in Northamerica is often part of university programs.

I know of quite few cases of Italian exchange students in Canada and USA that were literally bored to death when put in classes that matched their grade year.

Italy has several "types" of high school programs, two generic non specialized ones (liceo classico and liceo scientifico) often called the "classic track", and other specialized ones, meaning that at the end you actually acquire a specific skillset that in Northamerica usually requires a degree (for example accounting, elementary school teaching, entry level building engineering, software engineering, etc...)

Italian traditional university degrees usually correspond to a master in Northamerica, only recently were introduced what are locally called the "mini degrees" (mini lauree) that are comparable to the bachelor of arts programs in the Anglo world.

The PISA tests are quite ridiculous. The whole PISA study is pretty much nonsense. Different countries use different methods to execute these studies in their schools. Some countries for example don't let slow learners take part at these tests. The translation of the original questions from English into other languages is often poor. They are using testing methods that are typical for Anglo-American countries but are completely uncommon in other countries.
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Originally Posted by memph View Post
Based on your list, Canada is better than South Korea, Finland, Netherlands and Switzerland.

It's not really "his" list, and PISA is actually the OECD.


This is a pretty reputable global comparative study on education, even if like at study it might flaws (methodological or otherwise).
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:35 PM
 
1,373 posts, read 782,169 times
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's not really "his" list, and PISA is actually the OECD.


This is a pretty reputable global comparative study on education, even if like at study it might flaws (methodological or otherwise).

Not really. The study and how it's executed has so many flaws.

Since the first "PISA-Schock" in Germany, where German students achieved very bad results, the results are now significant better (at least until the latest PISA study). But are German students today smarter than at the first PISA study? Of course not, German schools have just trained these kinds of tests. They are now wasting time by training a new test method. A method that absolutely doesn't fit to our learning methods. For many countries these kinds of tests are just not common. In many countries students are for example used to answer questions in long essays. It's more common to write a long essay for several hours to just one tag.

If you translate a question from one language to another, the translation will almost always be longer than the original question. And quite often the translation doesn't make sense.

BTW, almost everything from the OECD is mostly stupid nonsense. They constantly try to impose a certain system over all countries. No matter whether it makes sense for the single country or not. For example the constantly demand of the OECD for a higher college enrollment in Germany. They absolutely don't care about the different systems in different countries. OECD = bored statisticians in their ivory tower with the task to economize everything in live to make the people more valuable for large corporations.

Last edited by lukas1973; 12-07-2016 at 01:45 PM..
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukas1973 View Post
Not really. The study and how it's executed has so many flaws.

Since the first "PISA-Schock" in Germany, where German students achieved very bad results, the results are now significant better (at least until the latest PISA study). But are German students today smarter than at the first PISA study? Of course not, German schools have just trained these kinds of tests. They are now wasting time by training a new test method. A method that absolutely doesn't fit to our learning methods. For many countries these kinds of tests are just not common. In many countries students are for example used to answer questions in long essays. It's more common to write a long essay for several hours to just one tag.

If you translate a question from one language to another, the translation will almost always be longer than the original question. And quite often the translation doesn't make sense.
Well, most of the countries in the top 20 aren't even English-speaking...
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