U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-14-2016, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Montreal > Quebec > Canada
481 posts, read 428,424 times
Reputation: 268

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Why is there such a disconnect in thinking so as to prevent Parizeau, and now you, seeing the irony in your castigating people for "bloc" voting along ethnic lines when the whole sovereignty movement could be said to have as it's primary motivation, that very premise?
Not ethnic, linguistic. There's a big difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-14-2016, 06:31 AM
 
18,327 posts, read 10,403,726 times
Reputation: 13391
Quote:
Originally Posted by begratto View Post
Not ethnic, linguistic. There's a big difference.
Horse crap! The similarities are glaring to everyone but..........
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2016, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Montreal > Quebec > Canada
481 posts, read 428,424 times
Reputation: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Horse crap! The similarities are glaring to everyone but..........
*sigh* ... to everyone who only reads the National Post and the Gazette, I guess. Please broaden your horizons a bit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2016, 07:00 AM
 
18,327 posts, read 10,403,726 times
Reputation: 13391
Quote:
Originally Posted by begratto View Post
*sigh* ... to everyone who only reads the National Post and the Gazette, I guess. Please broaden your horizons a bit.
*sigh* ....the usual condescension towards someone pointing out the obvious notwithstanding, the whole "pur laine" nonsense didn't grow out of thin air.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2016, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,961 posts, read 27,397,138 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Horse crap! The similarities are glaring to everyone but..........
I think a step back would be useful here.


"Ethnicity" is not necessarily about bloodlines. It's about an identifiable group that considers itself to be an "us" and that, almost always as well, others consider to be an identifiable "them". Often the beginnings of an ethnic group are bloodline-based, but things usually evolve over time and people with different bloodlines are brought into the fold and become mostly indistinguishable from the broader whole.


In this sense, the origins of the Quebec separatist movement were all about a specific ethnic group: French Canadians for lack of a better term. Descendants of the original French settlers and up until the 60s and 70s, of people who had integrated with them who were mostly of aboriginal and Irish-Scottish-English origins.


The independence movement was originally by and for this group, as this was the group that had an unfavourable position in society, because this "us" was viewed by most everyone else in the country as a lesser "them".


By the time 1995 had rolled around, however, things had evolved somewhat. Yes, it was still about an "us", but the tent had been greatly broadened. A number of people who had didn't have particularly deep rooting in the "us" had become a part of it. And became wedded to the cause.


This doesn't mean that the Oui side was as diverse as the Non side. It certainly was not.


And the separatist side still isn't as diverse as the federalist side in Quebec.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2016, 07:49 AM
 
18,327 posts, read 10,403,726 times
Reputation: 13391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think a step back would be useful here.


"Ethnicity" is not necessarily about bloodlines. It's about an identifiable group that considers itself to be an "us" and that, almost always as well, others consider to be an identifiable "them". Often the beginnings of an ethnic group are bloodline-based, but things usually evolve over time and people with different bloodlines are brought into the fold and become mostly indistinguishable from the broader whole.


In this sense, the origins of the Quebec separatist movement were all about a specific ethnic group: French Canadians for lack of a better term. Descendants of the original French settlers and up until the 60s and 70s, of people who had integrated with them who were mostly of aboriginal and Irish-Scottish-English origins.


The independence movement was originally by and for this group, as this was the group that had an unfavourable position in society, because this "us" was viewed by most everyone else in the country as a lesser "them".


By the time 1995 had rolled around, however, things had evolved somewhat. Yes, it was still about an "us", but the tent had been greatly broadened. A number of people who had didn't have particularly deep rooting in the "us" had become a part of it. And became wedded to the cause.


This doesn't mean that the Oui side was as diverse as the Non side. It certainly was not.


And the separatist side still isn't as diverse as the federalist side in Quebec.
That's as good an assessment as one of "my" ethnic origin could ask for.

I would prefer that grievances arising out of forced compliance either through sheer weight of numbers or actual unfairness of regulations, be given serious consideration via a recognized forum rather then allowed to simmer until they boil over. We have lurched from one crisis to another without seeming to have learned from our previous "skin of teeth" avoidance of crisis.

Here we are in 2016 after having faced down any number of situations including actual separation mandates with no better a grasp of how to get us all singing the Kumbayah song with gusto than we have of how to rid highschool of peer pressure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2016, 09:12 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 935,397 times
Reputation: 1119
There was a lot of animosity towards the PQ by people outside Quebec but this had NOTHING to do with the fact that Quebec was primarily Franco-phone but rather that Quebec had always been the spoiled child of Quebec and was since Confederation, always the main recipient of Ottawa largess. Now after over a century of buying Quebec votes, they still wanted to leave. In terms of treatment from Ottawa, Quebec had the least amount to ***** about.

My father and mother were never supporters of separatists but Dad {from Northern Ireland} and Mom {from England} who lived in Windsor and then London, upon their first trip to Montreal were quite taken aback by how subservient the French of Quebec were and how arrogant the English were. They never supported separatism by understood where the movement stemmed from.

I never would have wanted {or if possible} allowed Quebec to separate but I also know that it was perhaps a necessary movement in order for Franco-Quebecers t finally get the rights and equality that had long been denied in their own province.

As far as thinking everyone who is/was a separatist as the devil incarnate, there is/was a some truth to that but basically only in Western Canada who mostly had no real interaction with Quebecers and particularly Franco-Quebecers. Their dislike of separatists was no more so than their dislike of Torontonians or of any Quebecer, separatist or not as Tor/Mon were uniformaly disliked due to their complete control over the country's economic, political, social, media, and cultural policy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2016, 09:18 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 935,397 times
Reputation: 1119
The main thing is that the issue has basically been put to rest except for a few fast aging diehards. Canadians and Quebecers have moved on. Quebecers are now confident in their cultural integrity and have family and friends all over the country and all other Canadians are confident in their destiny and identity and no longer feel the need to have French as their second language to differentiate themselves from the Americans.

The one big irony about the entire affair is that Quebec, which was Canada's most politically powerful province, demanded independence to be rulers in their own kingdom but 50 years later, Quebec has never been so politically impotent as it has been in the last decade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2016, 03:24 AM
 
34,442 posts, read 41,547,959 times
Reputation: 29901
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
The main thing is that the issue has basically been put to rest except for a few fast aging diehards. Canadians and Quebecers have moved on. Quebecers are now confident in their cultural integrity and have family and friends all over the country and all other Canadians are confident in their destiny and identity and no longer feel the need to have French as their second language to differentiate themselves from the Americans.

.
As long as Quebecs language police continue to bully people into abiding by language laws i'm not of the opinion the Quebec government has moved on and is confident about its cultural identity.
one of many examples=
Big retailers taking French sign battle to Quebec court - Montreal - CBC News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2016, 04:10 AM
 
18,327 posts, read 10,403,726 times
Reputation: 13391
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
The main thing is that the issue has basically been put to rest except for a few fast aging diehards. Canadians and Quebecers have moved on. Quebecers are now confident in their cultural integrity and have family and friends all over the country and all other Canadians are confident in their destiny and identity and no longer feel the need to have French as their second language to differentiate themselves from the Americans.

The one big irony about the entire affair is that Quebec, which was Canada's most politically powerful province, demanded independence to be rulers in their own kingdom but 50 years later, Quebec has never been so politically impotent as it has been in the last decade.
That's the difference between generations. Some are young enough so that any passage of time equates to "problem solved" whereas others of us have seen a decade or two of peace turn into another decades or two of hollering at each other over the back fence.

It will come to a slow simmer again; of this you can make book.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top