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Old 12-20-2016, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,137,980 times
Reputation: 3738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Bombardier is always in trouble and is always bailed out. However, like blackberry, there are significant contributions.
Little secret - Boeing and Airbus have been bailed out frequently over the course of their life..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.69eebbab3eaf

EU Failed to Cut Off Illegal Subsidies to Airbus, WTO Rules - WSJ

 
Old 12-20-2016, 07:50 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,579 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Yes and after a crisis you recover. Its painful but you move on and become stronger.
Some did not recover that well...Japan, for example.....
I agree that I do not foresee any significant long term "existential" problem with Canada...a huge country blessed with a lot of natural resources, potentially (or probably actually, I do not have the figures) food and energy independent and sparsely populated.....it would take a serious effort to screw that up.

Last edited by saturno_v; 12-20-2016 at 08:05 PM..
 
Old 12-20-2016, 07:58 PM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,071,579 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Little secret - Boeing and Airbus have been bailed out frequently over the course of their life..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.69eebbab3eaf

EU Failed to Cut Off Illegal Subsidies to Airbus, WTO Rules - WSJ

True but current Bombardier trouble are a bit deeper....on top of that, the EU and the US , due to their economy size, have more maneuvering room for bailouts and government help...for example, relying on their defense spending.

Bombardier Inc’s problems go far beyond planes: How a failure to deliver streetcars on time has ripple effects across Canada | Financial Post

Bombardier Inc: The top 5 problems that need to be fixed | Financial Post
 
Old 12-20-2016, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Montreal
191 posts, read 133,273 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
True but current Bombardier trouble are a bit deeper....on top of that, the EU and the US , due to their economy size, have more maneuvering room for bailouts and government help...for example, relying on their defense spending.

Bombardier Inc’s problems go far beyond planes: How a failure to deliver streetcars on time has ripple effects across Canada | Financial Post

Bombardier Inc: The top 5 problems that need to be fixed | Financial Post
Since the time of your second article, they have improved cash flow, gotten 2 large orders for the C Series, cancelled projects, and have already revamped their top management and sales teams.

They're not out of the woods yet, but things are looking a lot better. Their management issues have been there for a very long time and were well-known. Hopefully, this entire debacle have taught them a lesson.

The Federal government is also extremely unlikely to let them die. It would basically kill the Aerospace sector in Quebec, maybe Canada and a lot of tech-related, well-paying jobs. If the Federal government does not intervene, you can bet that the provincial government will.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,137,980 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudReader View Post
Since the time of your second article, they have improved cash flow, gotten 2 large orders for the C Series, cancelled projects, and have already revamped their top management and sales teams.

They're not out of the woods yet, but things are looking a lot better. Their management issues have been there for a very long time and were well-known. Hopefully, this entire debacle have taught them a lesson.

The Federal government is also extremely unlikely to let them die. It would basically kill the Aerospace sector in Quebec, maybe Canada and a lot of tech-related, well-paying jobs. If the Federal government does not intervene, you can bet that the provincial government will.
Yeah subsequent to the C Series article Saturno posted, both Air Canada and Delta have placed large orders for the C Series. 45 firm for ACA and 75 for DAL. That brings the firm order total to 355 not including options. This for a plane that has only been in service for a few months. Airbus could have only dreamed of those numbers so early on in their A300/A310 programs. The C Series isn't going anywhere and most likely neither is Bombardier - weaknesses aside. As for the TTC or even Metrolinx cancelling the LRT flexity orders - i'll believe it when I see it. The TTC already has a few dozen of them and I believe Metrolinx has just received their test model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Some did not recover that well...Japan, for example.....
I agree that I do not foresee any significant long term "existential" problem with Canada...a huge country blessed with a lot of natural resources, potentially (or probably actually, I do not have the figures) food and energy independent and sparsely populated.....it would take a serious effort to screw that up.
Well we have to make the assumption that somehow there is going to be this large national correction with long term debilitating impact from coast to coast to coast. I think you may see some more localized occurrences than National. Can you really compare the RE market of Toronto to say Winnipeg or Calgary - not really.

Last edited by fusion2; 12-20-2016 at 11:41 PM..
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,901 posts, read 2,727,133 times
Reputation: 5084
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudReader View Post
The Federal government is also extremely unlikely to let them die. It would basically kill the Aerospace sector in Quebec, maybe Canada and a lot of tech-related, well-paying jobs. If the Federal government does not intervene, you can bet that the provincial government will.
Brazil isn't happy. It's filing a complaint with the World Trade Organization over Quebec's financial support of Bombardier.

Brazil WTO trade complaint against Canada without merit, Bombardier says | Globalnews.ca
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,566,557 times
Reputation: 8908
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
No. We've talked about it before on this forum, but there's this fallacy out there that Americans imagine Canada as a land of American Democrats. This is not really the reality, there are big differences (fundamentally different laws and institutions for one) that would likely make this very difficult. Maybe an EU type close cooperation and international integration if you actually did manage to separate. It's entirely dependent on why and how such a thing happened. We stayed out of your last civil war as much as we could manage to and it served us well, we'd probably try to do the same if you had another internal schism.
I would not mind Canada having that big chunk of land but........
All the Americans residing in those territories would become illegal aliens and be deported on mass to New York city. We would then require the USA to pay for a wall to be built around the entire area that would be build with temporary foreign workers. WE would allow the temps to relocate to the States when they finished the wall.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,137,980 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Brazil isn't happy. It's filing a complaint with the World Trade Organization over Quebec's financial support of Bombardier.

Brazil WTO trade complaint against Canada without merit, Bombardier says | Globalnews.ca
It isn't as if Embraer isn't receiving its governmental 'benefits' so its a case of throwing rocks when you live in a glass house. Embraer would do better to improve their product than whine over subsidies that they themselves have always benefited from.

Embraer fires another shot across Bombardier

Last edited by fusion2; 12-20-2016 at 11:30 PM..
 
Old 12-21-2016, 12:42 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,664 posts, read 70,531,500 times
Reputation: 76632
Maybe if you told those who want to join Canada that they'd be required to learn French, they'd change their mind. Except some of them already know French. Maybe that could be the entrance exam; they'd have to pass a basic French test.
 
Old 12-21-2016, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,172 posts, read 1,751,462 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Maybe if you told those who want to join Canada that they'd be required to learn French, they'd change their mind. Except some of them already know French. Maybe that could be the entrance exam; they'd have to pass a basic French test.
Except knowledge of French isn't required to be Canadian. One needs to know either English or French, but not both.
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