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Old 12-23-2016, 01:37 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,069,563 times
Reputation: 1256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
I would need to see something from a reputable website to believe that.

That odd webpage you linked suggests that Alberta separatism started when Trudeau was elected. That seems rather silly since the NDP decision is far more damaging to the province than a Liberal federal government.

There is no separatist movement in Alberta.

There is a Wikipedia article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_separatism

With links to sources, googling "Alberta separatism" produces articles from major national publications...again, is nothing in comparison to Quebec but there is a separatist sentiment somewhere among some folks over there.

 
Old 12-23-2016, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,128,404 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Fusion, you've just proved that you're not a Torontonian, you're a Calgarian, at least 60 years old, and about six pints into an evening at the local Legion.

Seriously, that's the demographic for Alberta separatism.

Even more seriously, though, there have been a few good points raised. Pierre Trudeau was not popular in Alberta, mainly because of the NEP. The "Salmon Arm Salute" is not a footnote in the history books out here; it is often brought up as an example of Pierre Trudeau's contempt for western Canada. Justin is similarly unpopular, mainly because of the family connection. Maybe, if the Liberals had selected Marc Garneau as Liberal leader, things would be different. "Marc Garneau was a successful astronaut and accomplished engineer, Justin Trudeau is just a failed drama teacher"--that's the vibe out here.

But as I said, there are grumblings; and that's all they are. Certainly, while I hear grumblings, I don't hear about out-and-out separation in my daily affairs--never heard about it at the sports bar, at the golf course, at the coffee shop, or the courthouse; or other places I frequent here in Alberta.
A 60 year old Calgarian eh - that might become a reality in a few decades lol - one never knows Well I did have a few maybe not quite six pints on a Thursday night though - orrr maybe.... sometimes its easy to lose track
I have found a new Czech beer that is totally awesome lol

As for PET and the NEP I hear that a lot and embarrassingly don't know enough to say whether it was in totality unfair or not. Highlights of how it was unfair would be awesome. Certainly I get that from some in Alberta, that there is an anger and i'm not trying to invalidate it, just trying to get more details on the why. I read some stuff on the NEP at a high level and its hard as a layman to pick out what was so horrible about it but that doesn't mean it was a good deal for Albertans so don't think i'm some strong PET or NEP cheerleader either.

As for Justin and his family connections, I personally don't think its fair that he should automatically be connected to his father.. Sure there is the link but ultimately he should be judged for his own policies, accomplishment and of course failures as Leader of our country. The two need to be separated though ie him and his family name. That said, i'm not sure why we get all googly eyed over a family name, Clinton, Bush, Castro, Trudeau, Kabila etc etc. Do we really need to elect another Harper or Chretien in the future - umm probably not. As for his qualifications, who knows Chevy. Its easy to assume that someone is going to perform poorly in a job simply because they have a 'light' background. We've seen it time immemorial that people have had great paper qualifications, a heavy resume but just don't make a great leader. I still think its too early to weigh any judgment on JT. I'm glad he's toned down though - he was getting a bit annoying early on with the boxing matches, one arm pushup's and that outburst on the floor of the HOC etc.

I didn't think there is a strong movement to separate from Canada in Alberta but one thing we as Canadians should always be mindful of is grumblings can lead to something more. Certainly if these grumblings have justifiable weight behind them because policy in this country is unfair and doesn't work we need to work on that. Otherwise we spin our wheels and don't make any progress and of course we should always want to make things better.. IMO a strong Alberta, a strong Ontario, a strong Quebec etc etc is a strong Canada.

Anyway Chevy, thanks as always for your insight.. You're a gentleman and a scholar! Merry Christmas Chevy!

Last edited by fusion2; 12-23-2016 at 06:05 AM..
 
Old 12-23-2016, 12:09 PM
 
18,262 posts, read 10,360,166 times
Reputation: 13313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Ill feelings, of course, separatism, no. Pierre Trudeau couldn't even get off the train in Vancouver because of the protests ... people throwing tomatoes or something like that ... but no one talked about separatism.
You are of course correct in that nothing would justify separation talk to those of us older than the cabbage leaf we came out from under. However, feelings of animosity towards the traditional power structure within Canada, to a very large extent, are both understandable and legitimate.

An example predating any Trudeau.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Rate

These aggravations will inherently and correctly die out as we older pharts do.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 12:16 PM
 
873 posts, read 813,674 times
Reputation: 554
Absolutely not. It has NOTHING to do with being liberal or not. Liberal/Conservative is not the most important thing that make up a country.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,431,836 times
Reputation: 3253
I have to say I am a little surprised at how hostile some of you are are at the idea of joining with the west coast of the USA. Some of you made valid points but others just went off on defensive rants. We welcome everyone into Canada, Muslims, sikhs etc and others we don't have much in common with yet the idea of joining with our good friends and liberal neighbors means the end of the world?
 
Old 12-23-2016, 02:48 PM
 
873 posts, read 813,674 times
Reputation: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
I have to say I am a little surprised at how hostile some of you are are at the idea of joining with the west coast of the USA. Some of you made valid points but others just went off on defensive rants. We welcome everyone into Canada, Muslims, sikhs etc and others we don't have much in common with yet the idea of joining with our good friends and liberal neighbors means the end of the world?
Welcoming people into our country is different than joining. No way, we are not joining with the U.S. ever. End of discussion. Move to the U.S. please if you don't like that. I can't for the life of me understand why Canadians would want to join parts of the U.S. Now the U.S. wanting to join Canada, I can understand that. But it will never happen thankfully.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,431,836 times
Reputation: 3253
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM10 View Post
Welcoming people into our country is different than joining. No way, we are not joining with the U.S. ever. End of discussion. Move to the U.S. please if you don't like that. I can't for the life of me understand why Canadians would want to join parts of the U.S. Now the U.S. wanting to join Canada, I can understand that. But it will never happen thankfully.
Wow, you just proved my point.

Quote:
Move to the U.S. please if you don't like that
Why? What an intolerant thing to say.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 03:26 PM
 
873 posts, read 813,674 times
Reputation: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Wow, you just proved my point.



Why? What an intolerant thing to say.
Because we are a separate country with our own unique identity and we need to hold on to that. We are not related to the U.S. Free trade with the U.S. is fine and our close relations are great, but actually joining as one nation will destroy Canada's identity. I'm sure most Canadians agree they don't want to join the U.S. It would be a nightmare and it wouldn't be Canada anymore if it were to happen. But this will never happen as we are still very far away from even being an economic union (having a common currency) which also most Canadians oppose. People need to realize we are separate from the U.S. We have our own identity and we are our own nation, end of story.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,431,836 times
Reputation: 3253
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM10 View Post
Because we are a separate country with our own unique identity and we need to hold on to that. We are not related to the U.S. Free trade with the U.S. is fine and our close relations are great, but actually joining as one nation will destroy Canada's identity. I'm sure most Canadians agree they don't want to join the U.S. It would be a nightmare and it wouldn't be Canada anymore if it were to happen. But this will never happen as we are still very far away from even being an economic union (having a common currency) which also most Canadians oppose. People need to realize we are separate from the U.S. We have our own identity and we are our own nation, end of story.
I am aware most Canadians probably wouldn't want to join the US, but that was not the question. The question was also hypothetical so relax and calm down. Stop telling people to move just because they don't view things the way you do.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 05:57 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,213 posts, read 6,567,148 times
Reputation: 14122
Quote:
Canada joining with US liberal states
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
I have to say I am a little surprised at how hostile some of you are are at the idea of joining with the west coast of the USA. Some of you made valid points but others just went off on defensive rants. We welcome everyone into Canada, Muslims, sikhs etc and others we don't have much in common with yet the idea of joining with our good friends and liberal neighbors means the end of the world?
Welcoming new immigrants into Canada is not the same thing as welcoming whole sections of a different nation to stay where they are but change their nationality and become part of Canada.

Take a look at the quoted title and the parts of your own post that were highlighted. I see some discrimination happening. Favouritism towards liberals and judgementalism towards non-liberals. The OP (Querzbilak ?sp?) referred to US Liberal states as the saner states. You are referring to the west coast and liberal neighbours as good friends to Canada.

Why and who decided that the US liberal states are the only sane states, that they are our only good friends and the only states fit to join Canada?

What about the non-liberals in USA? What about all the rest of USA? All the other states and people? Are they not good friends to Canada too? Why aren't they welcome to become part of Canada? Why are they being alienated and discriminated against?

Who is deciding and encouraging that Canada should take sides with USA's liberals / states and alienate all others? Is it other liberals?

I think this whole topic is divisive trouble-making and pot-stirring, like giving all of USA the finger and telling all of USA "a big ol' FU, we're sticking our nose in where it's none of our business and taking sides in your problems".

.
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