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Old 12-23-2016, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,348,673 times
Reputation: 8603

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
I have to say I am a little surprised at how hostile some of you are are at the idea of joining with the west coast of the USA. Some of you made valid points but others just went off on defensive rants. We welcome everyone into Canada, Muslims, sikhs etc and others we don't have much in common with yet the idea of joining with our good friends and liberal neighbors means the end of the world?
I just wanted to say that I get your point Luis.

It's almost like it's all about one side of the coin being "sexy" and exotic, and the other one isn't seen that way.

 
Old 12-23-2016, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,348,673 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Welcoming new immigrants into Canada is not the same thing as welcoming whole sections of a different nation to stay where they are but change their nationality and become part of Canada.



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Just being the devil's advocate, but what happens if immigrants don't shed their many of their old ways and integrate, and change Canada in a way that's way more alien than an Americanized Canada could ever be?
 
Old 12-23-2016, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,137,980 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM10 View Post
Because we are a separate country with our own unique identity and we need to hold on to that. We are not related to the U.S. Free trade with the U.S. is fine and our close relations are great, but actually joining as one nation will destroy Canada's identity. I'm sure most Canadians agree they don't want to join the U.S. It would be a nightmare and it wouldn't be Canada anymore if it were to happen. But this will never happen as we are still very far away from even being an economic union (having a common currency) which also most Canadians oppose. People need to realize we are separate from the U.S. We have our own identity and we are our own nation, end of story.
I agree and its not an anger or resentment or inferiority complex or the like regarding the U.S, we are just our own nation. I would welcome American immigrants to Canada just as much as I welcome immigrants from all points of the world. I actually work with quite a few Americans and they're awesome but its a different story welcoming an American here as an immigrant vs changing our borders and linking up with potentially hugely populated States. We would lose a lot of who and what we are regardless of similarities, the dynamic of our relatively small and sparsely populated country would never be the same.

Last edited by fusion2; 12-23-2016 at 08:49 PM..
 
Old 12-23-2016, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,137,980 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Just being the devil's advocate, but what happens if immigrants don't shed their many of their old ways and integrate, and change Canada in a way that's way more alien than an Americanized Canada could ever be?
Sure there is always that risk, especially as first gen CAD's who are FOB. That said, second and third generation generally would start to adapt, assimilate while also creating something new and not by default threatening either. You may get some elements who won't adapt/assimilate but the majority would as time goes by. I see that with many of the immigrant families I know here in T.O regardless of their culture.. The kids will roll their eyes at their parents 'old ways' and culture. The connection to the old land over time becomes more diluted. There are still cultural roots but its balanced by the society they are living in now. Immigration will change our fabric as it always has really, but its a slower change over time and a lot more subtle than completely redrawing the map like tomorrow with behemoths in population compared to our nation.. California alone has more people than Canada.

Playing the devils advocate - you don't see Canada losing something fundamental by joining with Liberal States?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Welcoming new immigrants into Canada is not the same thing as welcoming whole sections of a different nation to stay where they are but change their nationality and become part of Canada.

.
Sorry Zoisite, I know I said something very similar to this and actually didn't read your post until after I said my piece though I thought pretty much the same thing you did! In any event I totally agree with you and GM10 on this.

Last edited by fusion2; 12-23-2016 at 08:53 PM..
 
Old 12-23-2016, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,348,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Sure there is always that risk, especially as first gen CAD's who are FOB. That said, second and third generation would start to adapt and assimilate. I see that with many of the immigrant families I know here in T.O.. The kids will roll there eyes at their parents 'old ways' and culture. The connection to the old land over time becomes more diluted. Sure not completely and immigration will change our fabric but its a slower change and a lot more subtle than completely redrawing the map like tomorrow lol..
I haven't made up my mind yet 100% but my suspicion is that we might be in a new era where such an evolution might not be as much of a certainty as it once was. The world has changed.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 08:46 PM
 
593 posts, read 200,189 times
Reputation: 481
You dont seem to understand, The United States Armed Forces will be quickly changing everyones minds,

Seriously, dont push you luck , Americans are already in a violental mood,

Canada is already being surveilled by the intelligence community due to justin trudeau's actions.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,137,980 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I haven't made up my mind yet 100% but my suspicion is that we might be in a new era where such an evolution might not be as much of a certainty as it once was. The world has changed.
Hmm yeah I see global shifts and certainly Canada isn't an island to these changes, but I don't think the stream of immigrants we have coming in are big enough to change our nation in fundamental ways. I just am not seeing evidence of that, atleast where I live. As an example - a terrorist attack in Canada doesn't equate to our nation fundamentally changing, it equates to the fact that there are always a minority of lunatics. Is France fundamentally different now just because of some terrorist attacks of late? Sure its alarming but as a nation I think its stronger and more fundamental than these occurrences as horrible as they are. I'm not going to allow a small minority of lunatics to dictate how I live and i'll be in Paris in two weeks and i'll enjoy walking its streets with my head high and not in fear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vette0009 View Post
You dont seem to understand, The United States Armed Forces will be quickly changing everyones minds,

Seriously, dont push you luck , Americans are already in a violental mood,

Canada is already being surveilled by the intelligence community due to justin trudeau's actions.
What are you talking about? Can you elaborate about how the United States Armed Forces will be quickly changing 'everyones minds'
Inside scoop please.. Not fake news scoop or conjecture either, I mean something based on facts.

Last edited by fusion2; 12-23-2016 at 09:07 PM..
 
Old 12-23-2016, 09:16 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,235 posts, read 6,581,911 times
Reputation: 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post

What are you talking about? Can you elaborate about how the United States Armed Forces will be quickly changing 'everyones minds'
Inside scoop please.. Not fake news scoop or conjecture either, I mean something based on facts.
Uh oh, now you've done it. Prepare yourself for a bunch of references and so called inside scoops from that zerohedge blog, that is vette0009's go-to place for news.

.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,348,673 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Hmm yeah I see global shifts and certainly Canada isn't an island to these changes, but I don't think the stream of immigrants we have coming in are big enough to change our nation in fundamental ways. I just am not seeing evidence of that, atleast where I live. As an example - a terrorist attack in Canada doesn't equate to our nation fundamentally changing, it equates to the fact that there are always a minority of lunatics. Is France fundamentally different now just because of some terrorist attacks of late? Sure its alarming but as a nation I think its stronger and more fundamental than these occurrences as horrible as they are. I'm not going to allow a small minority of lunatics to dictate how I live and i'll be in Paris in two weeks and i'll enjoy walking its streets with my head high and not in fear.
.
Societal change ususally happens subtly, almost by osmosis.

But more specifically, repeated terrorist attacks most definitely have a collective psychological effect. I mean, how can they not? They change a place more than we realize.

Also, I am trying to think of a period in modern history when one can truly point to even a small number of newcomers to various countries engaging in behaviour meant to destabilize and terrorize them. (Realizing that the numbers we are are talking about are very small - the effects can still be devastating sometimes.)

I can't think of any examples. Every country has certainly seen immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers engage in criminal activity for personal gain, but this "Trojan Horse" thing is unique and new IMO.
 
Old 12-23-2016, 10:12 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,235 posts, read 6,581,911 times
Reputation: 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Just being the devil's advocate, but what happens if immigrants don't shed their many of their old ways and integrate, and change Canada in a way that's way more alien than an Americanized Canada could ever be?
That's not going to happen. Sometimes saying "let's play devil's advocate" is just another way of saying "let's play negative thinking about the imaginary boogeyman under the bed". I don't think it's a good idea to conjecture about something imaginary like that happening in Canada.

I don't see any evidence of immigrants attempting to change Canada into something alien. There aren't enough of them coming into Canada to make an impact anyway even if some of them did want to change it. That whole concept of immigrant boogeymen coming into a new country and not integrating, taking over and changing it into something alien - that is what so many Americans are already so terrified of and frothing at the mouth about. Just look at all the fear they are projecting, there are SO MANY THINGS (in addition to their fear of immigrants, illegal aliens and refugees) that they are afraid of including their fear and loathing of each other. Just go read in the political forum for the truth of that. Their frothing fear of imagined enemies shouldn't be allowed to slop over across our borders and infect Canadians.

If Canadians start thinking that an Americanized Canada is a better evil to know than a imaginary boogeyman evil that they don't know, then that means Canada has become much more Americanized and infected with fear than what we think it already is. And that is without taking into account the more complete Americanization and loss of Canadian identity that would happen in the event that some of the American states seceded from USA and became Canadian territories. As others have said, it wouldn't be Canada anymore. And there would be more fear.

Canada is a good place that is doing something right. I keep on reading and hearing it and seeing evidence of it over and over that Canada is everyone's friend and everyone likes Canada. This coming from so many people who don't live in Canada but hear good things about it, and from so many people who visited and want to live in Canada, and so many new immigrants who have come to Canada because they wanted to live the Canadian way and now they feel blessed to be here. They like it the way it is, they want to contribute what they know and who they are culturally but they don't want to change Canada to something different. They are not afraid here. There must be some truth to it that Canada is doing something right and that it's something worth emulating, otherwise why would so many other people express their appreciation if it's not true?

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 12-23-2016 at 10:21 PM..
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