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Old 12-26-2016, 04:01 AM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,107,211 times
Reputation: 1903

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Our resident lawyer should be able to clear it up.

Quebec and Ottawa agreed that women in Canada should not be dressed head to toe with cloth when identifying themselves. The Senate disagreed with Canada. Quebec can continue to do what it wants under Quebec law.

In the USA, is it allowed when swearing an oath to the country during a citizenship ceremony for women to be covered with cloth except for their eyes (meaning they can't actually be observed swearing the oath)?

Howso does the USA accommodate more non-English speakers than Canada?

On marijuana, the Dutch came up with it first ... not some state in the US.
The U.S. government does not mandate a certain attire for the Citizenship Oath. They only request you "respect the dignity of this event (no jeans, shorts or flip-flops)" https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...e/chapter5.pdf

Canada has two official languages. The U.S. has no official language. This distinction gives U.S. municipalities a lot more leeway in printing public documents in many, many languages, educating in many languages, voting in many languages, etc. The U.S. accommodates languages much more than Canada does.

The question was whether the U.S. or Canada pioneered certain social issues first. Trying to pretend that the Dutch were ever part of this discussion is just another red herring to distract from having no good response.

 
Old 12-26-2016, 04:35 AM
 
18,268 posts, read 10,368,849 times
Reputation: 13325
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Oh, my goodness,the irony!
 
Old 12-26-2016, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,107,211 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't really care about your GDP per cap figures.. Those figures don't measure distribution of wealth so we don't know how concentrated wealth is or not with GDP per cap.. I'm more interested in median incomes and how the average joe is doing economically. These measures certainly aren't the be all and end all of HDI or more importantly IHDI, so you're looking at things in a manner that benefits your narrative as opposed to a balanced and objective viewpoint. That said, there are values, socio-cultural environment, political institutions, laws and a bunch of other things that such stats will never capture and it is for those reasons that i'll happily keep the current borders Canada has. Its far too risky and unstable a proposition to merge our stable and steady progressive system with yours that has a tendency to be a lot more volatile. From your vantage point it wouldn't be advantageous to link with Canada. We feel the same way so it seems like we are having a moot conversation but it gives the peacocks a chance to show their feathers doesn't it...
I don't disagree with anything you said here.

Quote:
You're reeeaaallly stretching with this and you're also making ridiculous assumptions here about what Canadians are screaming. I was pointing out to you that you were speaking about QEII as being very very regressive and yes, I rightfully pointed out that firstly, she is a figurehead with limited HOS powers, and secondly she is far more progressive than the government you've just elected.
My problem is not with QEII but with the institution itself. The institution - the Monarchy - stands for the very things progressives claim to abhor: obscene wealth, rigid tradition, backwards social mores, religious litmus tests, subordination to authority figures, nationalist symbolism, aristocratic elitism, etc. I would never hope to be part of a nation where the first thing I utter as a naturalized citizen is the phrase, "I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors." I must swear my allegiance to a family of hereditary royals 5,000 miles away. And that's before I even get to my allegiance to Canadian laws. The average American would NEVER ever support becoming a subject. The U.S. has fought for too long to chart its own path and we've done far more as a Republic than every other colony has done as a Commonwealth.

Quote:
I'm well aware Clinton won the popular vote. I'm well aware not all Americans are right wing loons and a greater majority are not - but still that changes nothing about the fact that ultimately because of YOUR electoral system you (I say that collectively within your current electoral processes) have elected probably the most regressive candidate and regressive congress in a generation and it WILL have consequences. If I were you, I wouldn't be worrying about Canada's figurehead HOS - she will do nothing to put in place the regressive policies that your new President, his Cabinet and your elected members of congress and quite possibly your Supreme Court will do. Even you have to be worried about this! So at this point in time, its quite ironic and probably ill timed to be attacking the Queen of Canada as her limited role as our HOS mandates. Given the volatility of your electoral system and the fact that the person who garnered the most votes, isn't the President further underscores that point. There is a fire in your kitchen and you're worrying about your neighbours dust bunnies? Like really? This seems like a clear cut case of the wounded attacking. The irony is the wounds in this case are completely self inflicted.
I'm not worried. I hate the GOP and voted for Clinton but 2016 was the right time for the GOP to win strategically speaking. If Hillary had won, the Dems would have been bludgeoned electorally in 2020. She was very unpopular as a person and 12 years of a single party at The White House leads to fatigue. So 2020 would have been a bloodbath and it would have occurred during the year when re-districting takes place. So the GOP would have been in a position to gerrymander the states and House of Reps for another 10 years from 2020-2030. Yes, the GOP stole the Supreme Court and yes, we'll go back to the 5-4 GOP majority we've had for decades. But now the Dems get a chance at breaking gerrymandering at the State and House level. And that means if Trump goes down in 2020, Dems could win a trifecta to boot. And 2018 has 30+ governor seats up for grabs. And the 1st midterm of a Presidency has historically been very bad for the in-party (the only exception being 2002 due to 9/11).

I always ask this to my Democratic friends, "What did you expect? That Democrats would win every election for the next 1,000 years?" Democrats were either going to lose in 2016 or 2020. I'd much rather it have happened in 2016 against a very unlikable and unpopular GOP candidate.

Both systems have tons of electoral issues to hammer out. Canada's last two majority governments won with 39% of the vote. Talk about lacking a mandate!

Quote:
As for the orgasm part when bad things happen to befall the US - well NO that is not the case at all.. Its more like we get people like you creating threads like this and willing Americans (YOU) stirring the pot about Canada and its perceived shortcomings every chance you get - Probably because you know things are going to worse down there so try to play the bully with us to prop your wounded self up. Its something you in particular do Manitopiaaa as you chest thump that we have a bigger GDP, We are a military superpower and you are a pygmy and now its attacking our political system when obviously yours has cracks so NO its not how you are characterizing this at all re Canada/Canadians.
I grew up in the South. Canadians being "worried" about Americans is the Canadian version of "Bless Your Heart." We can take care of ourselves just fine. But thanks for your concern.

And things aren't doing just fine in Canada. And you know that. Your currency is weak, oil is low, the housing bubble is showing signs of entering the danger zone. Household debt is through the roof, your economy has been losing full-time jobs for quite a while, and the cost of living and affordability is horrible. And that's before I even touch upon the weather.

My city of Alexandria has a lower crime rate than Canada, an income 3x the Canadian average, higher racial diversity than Canada, better educational attainment than Canada. I'm an hour from the Appalachian Mountains, two hours from the Atlantic Ocean, 30 minutes from Virginia Wine Country. I have it great personally. I don't know why you're so sold on America being some nuclear wasteland.

Quote:
If you hadn't noticed, the vast majority of Canada LOVED Obama and wanted Clinton to win so no we weren't waiting for this to happen to gloat. We hoped for your sake and by extension ours that this wouldn't happen but here we are!
The Canada forums on C-D- were full of anti-American bile when Obama was President. They would have been full of bile regardless of whether Trump or Clinton had won. If Clinton had won, you and the other Canadian nationalists wouldn't be able to scream "TRUMP!" from the tops of the mountains. But you'd find other reasons to attack the U.S. Because you did so even before Trump was on scene. So why would we expect any different?

Quote:
Where do you get this nonsense from. If i'm not P***S worshipping the U.S from Head to toe and on the molecular and atomic level like you want me to I hate the U.S? You're being a typical peacock here! You're not fooling me at all.. For all it matters, I don't want Canada to merge with ANY country or foreign State. Its as simple as that, it has zero to do with hating the U.S.. I'm actually quite concerned about friends and family down there with what y'all have elected. Every country has its issues, Canada included but I prefer the stability and gradual/steady progress up here. Y'all alternate too much down there and it can hurt your development.. I also think you're downplaying the mandate you have given your elected officials. When I say you, i'm not saying you personally or the more than half of you who don't think Trump and his posse are the way forward but alas, here you are!
Canada = Peace, order, and good government
USA = Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

The U.S. and Canada have different cultural roots. America has never been a country of peace because our Independence was gained through blood and toil. Our country has never been for order because we need to reshape the world order to survive as a nation. Order for the U.S. meant keeping France and Britain in control of the world. America's survival depended on breaking out from the pack and disrupting the world order. Anything order would have put the U.S. at the mercy of London.

The U.S. doesn't also have an attraction to good government. America was built on creative destruction. When something doesn't work, you get a hammer and break it down. To Canadians, that comes off as aggressive and violent. But America has never been a collegial place. America by foundation has been a place where ideas converge. And only one idea can become law. So our system has been developed to be adversarial and combative. The founders built a system of strong Checks and Balances PRECISELY because the U.S. body politic is combative and competitive. But with all the bad comes the good. America became #1 in the world because of this incessant drive to win. And it brought the world hundreds of major innovations that you and the other Canadian nationalists use to attack Americans.

America does not aspire for order, peace and good government. "Order, peace and good government" are the goals for weak powers who are content with their own mediocrity. Countries like the U.S. thrive on the opposite: creativity, competition, and creative destruction. It hasn't always worked out. Trump's creative destruction is going to be a disaster for a lot of people. But if he's a big enough disaster, the Reagan Era will end, Conservative ideas will be discarded and the U.S. can finally begin its Second New Deal Era.

Quote:
I know you get great satisfaction in engaging the 'cabal' as you call it but Canadians probably don't take pleasure in what you guys are up against in the near future. I personally hope its not as bad as it probably is going to be. but we don't know. Chomsky said it best, the most predictable thing about Trump is his unpredictability. As far as self-worth, I think you are projecting there lol.. I admire a lot about the U.S and its contributions as I do many other nations.. As for trying to throw a guilt trip around because of U.S innovation, your being really immature with that. Innovative, Scientific, Technological progress belongs to humanity not a nation. You really need to broaden your horizons... There is a whole world out there!
Different nations contribute different quantities to innovation, science and technological progress. You know that.
 
Old 12-26-2016, 06:15 AM
 
18,268 posts, read 10,368,849 times
Reputation: 13325
You're determined to take the happenstance of population growth and military projection furthering your country's advancement to illustrate a growth by design.

A relatively new country with the resources, climate, and space so as to encourage immigration population growth and a government that realizes that if it devotes a larger amount of GDP to building a military that can project it's influence around the globe becomes a super-power and you think it has anything at all to do with the individual American's desire excel you really are barking up the wrong tree.

Taking all of the attributes that would be scorned in the local schoolyard bully and turning them into positives just highlights how skewed your sense of ethical and moral values are.

Those features you refer to as "mediocrity" in other nations are more than often used by any number of authoritative assessment org's. to award QOL and other rubber hitting the road features of daily life a higher award than America the Great across the board.

The average American will swear allegiance to someone's pet dog if there be a new 4X4 pick-up truck in the bargain. Stop with the assumed superiority in freedoms expressed. Your citizens have gone to fight in foreign lands for no better reason than corporate oil. That's not the marker of individual thinker',s that is instead the marker of the stupid lemming.
 
Old 12-26-2016, 07:53 AM
 
1,147 posts, read 470,888 times
Reputation: 750
America doesn't even have a universal healthcare system, or mandatory paid annual and maternity leave.
 
Old 12-26-2016, 09:51 AM
 
30,082 posts, read 47,327,614 times
Reputation: 16026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
A lot of back and forth here.

I think the consensus has most Canadians saying no. Whether it's loss of sovereignty, political or practical reasons.

The " benefits " offered don't seem worth the loss of a country, and it will mean, the loss of a country.

Saturno's comment that Canada has problems too, is moot. All countries have problems, and I'd wager as bad as Canadians see some of current ones, they are NOTHING in comparison to what others are facing or going through. His argument that things are fine in the US with Trump, haven't been tested yet. Time will tell. Give it a year and we'll actually have an answer.

However we all know this scenario of states leaving the US, will never happen anyway.
Right now everything is "fine" because Trump has no power as President--
He only has the power of the tweet under his thumbs...
Wait until he is inaugurated and there are few constraints on his power---
certainly not by any wimps in the GOP who will be too afraid of being targeted at their next election by Trump supporters who come out of the woodwork to vote them out at the primary level...

Trump winning the election is akin to an arsonist being given an unlimited supply of matches, coal oil, and a sheriff out of town for long vacation...
He will delight in the beautiful blaze...
 
Old 12-26-2016, 09:55 AM
 
30,082 posts, read 47,327,614 times
Reputation: 16026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Really? Explain the quoted post below then. Clearly Mr. Censusdata from USA has been educated somewhere to believe the myth. Explain why so many millions of Americans believe and insist on constantly perpetuating to others their belief that Canada is socialist / communist. I've been reading it and hearing it all my life and that is a very long time. There are hundreds of examples of posts right here on City Data of people making that claim. There are thousands upon thousands of declarations on internet and in the media on the news and on television shows and in movies, all from Americans claiming it. If that kind of perpetuation of a lie is not a form of mass education and brainwashing then I don't know what is. So please explain why so many millions of Americans believe the lie. Is it because they are poorly educated, or are they just stupid, or is it some kind of deliberate political propaganda used to trick other Americans and create suspicion and mistrust of a friend and ally? I suspect it is all three, particularly the latter. Explain it if you can.



.
People stupid enough to vote for Trump are too stupid to educate themselves about other countries....
You are fighting an uphill battle dude
 
Old 12-26-2016, 09:58 AM
 
30,082 posts, read 47,327,614 times
Reputation: 16026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish & Chips View Post
America doesn't even have a universal healthcare system, or mandatory paid annual and maternity leave.
But Ivanka is going to take on that maternity leave as her contribution to making American great again...
Don't know how the Sec of Labor and Commerce will help her do that since neither is fan of adding benefits for workers...
 
Old 12-26-2016, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Land Of Smiles
293 posts, read 161,753 times
Reputation: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
People stupid enough to vote for Trump are too stupid to educate themselves about other countries....
You are fighting an uphill battle dude
The fact that you don't like Trump does not mean that everyone who voted for him is stupid...

And he is not yet a president...
 
Old 12-26-2016, 12:08 PM
 
6,490 posts, read 4,072,991 times
Reputation: 16775
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
People stupid enough to vote for Trump are too stupid to educate themselves about other countries....
You are fighting an uphill battle dude
If you really believe that 62 million Americans voted for Trump because they are stupid, then I pity you.
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