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I suspect that even if Calexit reaches a somewhat semi serious stage it would require, even in California, well over 50% of the vote.....fair to say 2/3 which, I feel sure to say, it will never happen.
We in Canada have faced the same question. In short, Quebec felt it needed 50% of the vote plus one single vote to separate; the rest of the country felt more votes were needed. See Reference Re Secession of Quebec [1998] 2 SCR 217; and the ensuing Clarity Act, S.C. 2000, c. 26.
Neither the Reference nor the Clarity Act makes it clear how many votes are needed, but based on the Canadian court rulings, Saturno's guess at 66% would fit just fine for the United States, I'd suppose.
I'm not so sure about that. Given that the Queen has very carefully circumscribed powers constitutionally (i.e. she can only use her extraordinary reserve powers on her own initiative in extreme situations, none of which have come to pass in 150 years of Canadian history), I doubt that Canadians would prefer an elected head of state who threatens religious groups (Muslims), who threatens other countries (Mexico, and a wall), and who threatens women ("Grab them by the _____.").
QEII is doing a good job, by my estimation: unelected sure, but not prone to doing anything outside her powers, or indeed, doing anything unconstitutional by Canadian standards.
My point (if it wasn't clear) was that people may not mind a monarch given what head of state democracy has recently led to.
With re: to California, I don't think the percentage vote needed matters so much as the process for amending the U.S. Constitution is clear, and that is a big hurdle to overcome. Sure, if 66% voted for it, there might be more impetus for the rest of the country to go along, but I don't see that happening.
Ah - so you're just upset that you're not allowed to threaten life on the planet by continuing to pump massive amounts of carbon into the atmosphere with impunity.
Wooooh! "Life on the planet!" "Massive amounts of carbon!"
Wake up and give your head a shake. Or get out of the undergraduate protest rallies at your local university. Are you aware that President-Elect Trump doesn't care about carbon emissions? That he's going to do whatever it takes to "make America great again," even if it means jobs in the rust belt that will blow pollution across southern Ontario? Negating any carbon initiatives that Ontario intoduces. Ontario taxpayers will pay more in carbon taxes, and get less in clean air.
Or Alberta--sorry you don't think we're contributors to Canada, but neither Quebec nor Ontario complained when we were the net contributors to the Canadian federation. Now, we're in trouble--and all you can say is, "you're just upset that you're not allowed to threaten life on the planet."
Planet, schmanet, Janet. We're fighting for our lives, our houses, our way of life, here in Alberta, and you toddle in and tell us that we're wrong in doing what we've been doing for years. Well, perhaps, you ought to take the mote out of your eye before you tell us to take the beam out of ours.
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That's a pretty narrow, provincial, and selfish attitude to take. And one that doesn't really merit much in the way of discussion.
It seems that to you, "I'm right, you're wrong" constitutes discussion. Sorry, but that is not discussion by any stretch.
Wooooh! "Life on the planet!" "Massive amounts of carbon!"
Wake up and give your head a shake. Or get out of the undergraduate protest rallies at your local university. Are you aware that President-Elect Trump doesn't care about carbon emissions? That he's going to do whatever it takes to "make America great again," even if it means jobs in the rust belt that will blow pollution across southern Ontario? Negating any carbon initiatives that Ontario intoduces. Ontario taxpayers will pay more in carbon taxes, and get less in clean air.
Or Alberta--sorry you don't think we're contributors to Canada, but neither Quebec nor Ontario complained when we were the net contributors to the Canadian federation. Now, we're in trouble--and all you can say is, "you're just upset that you're not allowed to threaten life on the planet."
Planet, schmanet, Janet. We're fighting for our lives, our houses, our way of life, here in Alberta, and you toddle in and tell us that we're wrong in doing what we've been doing for years. Well, perhaps, you ought to take the mote out of your eye before you tell us to take the beam out of ours.
It seems that to you, "I'm right, you're wrong" constitutes discussion. Sorry, but that is not discussion by any stretch.
One of the primary reasons I was mortified about the election of Trump was not what his policies would do to people in the U.S. (they voted him in) but for the rest of us who had no choice in the matter. Climate change is one of those things. It knows no political boundaries and doesn't discriminate. Climate deniers are taking a massive gamble based on all the reputable and credible science leading us to the conclusion that man made emissions are contributing to what is going on and we could be going down the path of no return. They are telling us we NEED to change our ways if we have a chance. Its not a guarantee its a chance that we will save this fragile balance of a sphere from our reckless behaviour.
So when you have a President-elect of the leading country of the free world pretty much appointing climate deniers to his cabinet and spews climate denial crap on twitter, you know what he is going to do regarding U.S leadership and policy on climate change..
As for the economy, what you wrote reminded me of an article I recently read about an Ontario company moving its expansion to the U.S due to energy costs here in Ontario.
With the Cap-and-trade coming into fruition In Ontario in January, it will make things even more challenging for Ontario companies to compete and it will have an economic impact when other jurisdictions aren't playing by our playbook. I guess the question is, should we in Canada tow the line of President Trump and just say screw the planet its too late, its over. Short term gain for long term I don't know.. Should we become climate change deniers. Shall we pretend that the world isn't royally screwed and live in a fantasy.
One thing I can say as an Ontarian is I didn't enjoy what happened out there or is happening in Alberta Chevy so don't assume everyone in Ontario and Quebec did not or doesn't care about the people of Alberta either. Not everything is about the mighty buck in life either. Sometimes principle and values trump economics. Hopefully the pipelines will get built and provide some relief but ultimately as nation and more importantly as a species, I think we do need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels or we're pretty much done for. With the election of Trump the done for part may be more assured unfortunately. Ah well who cares, the fossils among us don't have to worry about this world - but the babies being born today well, what will be of the world for them....
It is a pipe dream indeed....Calexit is just very silly hot air, the same as when Texas did threat to secede during the Clinton years and the Obama years...doesn't Alberta also threat to leave Canada periodically??
Finally, independent California is not assured that it would maintain its economic weight without being part of the United States, the dollar system not to mention all the federal funds R&D spending (and the good jobs that come with it)
A lot of "wealth" created in California recently has been courtesy of the Federal Reserve and its 0% interest rate policy where companies that do not make any money or very little suddenly were valued billion of dollars...and let's not forget the huge source of funding for the VC firms, pension funds all over the country.
Finally, some Californians (meaning some people in LA and San Francisco, California is not as deep blue as many think) may want to secede from the US but that does not necessarily mean they may want to join Canada....
Alberta doesn't threaten to leave Canada. Quebec does.
One of the primary reasons I was mortified about the election of Trump was not what his policies would do to people in the U.S. (they voted him in) but for the rest of us who had no choice in the matter. Climate change is one of those things. It knows no political boundaries and doesn't discriminate. Climate deniers are taking a massive gamble based on all the reputable and credible science leading us to the conclusion that man made emissions are contributing to what is going on and we could be going down the path of no return. They are telling us we NEED to change our ways if we have a chance. Its not a guarantee its a chance that we will save this fragile balance of a sphere from our reckless behaviour.
So when you have a President-elect of the leading country of the free world pretty much appointing climate deniers to his cabinet and spews climate denial crap on twitter, you know what he is going to do regarding U.S leadership and policy on climate change..
As for the economy, what you wrote reminded me of an article I recently read about an Ontario company moving its expansion to the U.S due to energy costs here in Ontario.
With the Cap-and-trade coming into fruition In Ontario in January, it will make things even more challenging for Ontario companies to compete and it will have an economic impact when other jurisdictions aren't playing by our playbook. I guess the question is, should we in Canada tow the line of President Trump and just say screw the planet its too late, its over. Short term gain for long term I don't know.. Should we become climate change deniers. Shall we pretend that the world isn't royally screwed and live in a fantasy.
One thing I can say as an Ontarian is I didn't enjoy what happened out there or is happening in Alberta Chevy so don't assume everyone in Ontario and Quebec did not or doesn't care about the people of Alberta either. Not everything is about the mighty buck in life either. Sometimes principle and values trump economics. Hopefully the pipelines will get built and provide some relief but ultimately as nation and more importantly as a species, I think we do need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels or we're pretty much done for. With the election of Trump the done for part may be more assured unfortunately. Ah well who cares, the fossils among us don't have to worry about this world - but the babies being born today well, what will be of the world for them....
I don't see how it is possible for the planet to wean itself off fossil fuel. As I posted upthread, fossil fuels are the material used in everyday products. "Crude oil is a source of raw material (feedstock) for making plastics ...". What material will replace plastics?
"Until the end of the 19th century, the majority of clothing and other textiles originated from products of living nature like fibers from cotton or wool from animals.17 This trend has drastically shifted and synthetic fibers, which are derived from fossil fuel, currently account for the majority of global fiber production. In 2014, synthetic fibers like polyester, nylon and vinyl accounted for 67.5 percent of global textile production.18 The prominent use of synthetic fibers has created more affordable clothing for the masses, while improving their durability.
...
From water bottles to medicine bottles, food containers, grocery sacks, medical tubing, toys, insulation and a myriad of other consumer products, everything “plastic” originates from petroleum or natural gas. "
One of the best easy to understand and funny video about the dilemma we face...global warming is very real but we do not really have a solution if we want to maintain our standard of living....
Alberta doesn't threaten to leave Canada. Quebec does.
Obviously the percentage of people supporting secession from Canada is nowhere close to Quebec but Alberta separatism movement is real and actually experienced a small surge lately....
I don't see how it is possible for the planet to wean itself off fossil fuel. As I posted upthread, fossil fuels are the material used in everyday products. "Crude oil is a source of raw material (feedstock) for making plastics ...". What material will replace plastics?
"Until the end of the 19th century, the majority of clothing and other textiles originated from products of living nature like fibers from cotton or wool from animals.17 This trend has drastically shifted and synthetic fibers, which are derived from fossil fuel, currently account for the majority of global fiber production. In 2014, synthetic fibers like polyester, nylon and vinyl accounted for 67.5 percent of global textile production.18 The prominent use of synthetic fibers has created more affordable clothing for the masses, while improving their durability.
...
From water bottles to medicine bottles, food containers, grocery sacks, medical tubing, toys, insulation and a myriad of other consumer products, everything “plastic” originates from petroleum or natural gas. "
Just because we use plastic for a bunch of things right now doesn't mean we can't go back to using other materials instead although whether it's worth it is a different question.
Water bottles? use tap water
Food containers? can just reuse glass containers - same with medicine bottles
Grocery bags? can use tougher forms of paper bags or textiles
Toys? most kids have way more toys than they know what to do with and their need for toys to be happy is not that much imo. But they can still be made of other materials like textiles (ex dolls), wood, metal or rubber
Clothing? Having to wear cotton clothes? Oh the horror... I have cotton clothes that I've worn on a regular basis for 10 years and they're still in pretty good shape.
*There are a few cases where using something other than plastic would be highly impractical but I would say that's a pretty small % of plastic consumption
The main challenge would definitely be to shift away from using fossil fuels for energy, which is still by far the biggest use of fossil fuels.
Last edited by memph; 12-22-2016 at 12:34 PM..
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