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Old 02-09-2017, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Aren't you being a bit pedantic though? Is the terrain from Sault Ste Marie to Thunder Bay that much different than the terrain from QC to Saguenay?
Yes. As you pointed out, and the map shows, Saguenay is on the tertiary edge of the shield. North of Superior is right through the heart. Also Quebec City is not on the shield, nor is 99 percent of that highway.


It's sort of like saying: I've been to Galveston, so I know exactly what Texas' beaches are like.
You've taken a non-representative example and drawn the conclusion to the whole.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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The terrain between Quebec City and Saguenay is quite challenging as well.


Here are some random shots:


https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Uni...521877!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Hal...308225!6m1!1e1


I am not sure about other factors, but one thing I can say is that overall it's likely quite a bit more mountainous than the terrain in northern Ontario.


The reason that the highway to the Saguenay was twinned is not likely because it was technically "easier" to do, but likely because the distance was a lot shorter, traffic levels were higher, and that part of Quebec has a higher population and more political weight than (relatively speaking) what NW Ontario has in that province.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The terrain between Quebec City and Saguenay is quite challenging as well.


I think you need to come out west more Acajack.


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ca...708459!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.com/maps/@49.5902...8i6656!6m1!1e1
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
I wasn't comparing to BC and AB, I was comparing to N ON.


And speaking of N ON, a good chunk toughest part of the job there was already done decades ago. Yes, twinning would be expensive but they wouldn't be starting from scratch. The right of way is already mostly cleared, and much of the region is unpopulated with few interchanges or overpasses required.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I wasn't comparing to BC and AB, I was comparing to N ON.


And speaking of N ON, a good chunk toughest part of the job there was already done decades ago. Yes, twinning would be expensive but they wouldn't be starting from scratch. The right of way is already mostly cleared, and much of the region is unpopulated with few interchanges or overpasses required.
That granite is a tough b though. To put the difficulty in perspective, the new Kicking Horse bridge and improvements (twinning) that are on the first picture link. 26km, took seven years and cost just under a billion (with a b) dollars. Short of the bridge span, which was $150M if I recall, the rest is hard rock blasting, which is what would be on the shield.
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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[quote=mikeyyc;47136587]That granite is a tough b though. To put the difficulty in perspective, the new Kicking Horse bridge and improvements (twinning) that are on the first picture link. 26km, took seven years and cost just under a billion (with a b) dollars. Short of the bridge span, which was $150M if I recall, the rest is hard rock blasting, which is what would be on the shield.[/quote




It would be a huge undertaking but much of the clearing work was already done in Northern Ontario when they built the two-lane TCH decades ago. You're not starting from scratch hardly anywhere and you don't need a wide grassy median. You could just clear some more trees, expand the road bed a bit on either side, and build a concrete median down the middle.
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Another question is whether ON-17 is the best option for a four-lane cross-Canada route in Northern Ontario.


If you're thinking of heavy truck traffic, ON-11 is less direct but it might be a better route as it has fewer hills, turns and cliffs along it. It would likely be cheaper per km as well.
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Another question is whether ON-17 is the best option for a four-lane cross-Canada route in Northern Ontario.


If you're thinking of heavy truck traffic, ON-11 is less direct but it might be a better route as it has fewer hills, turns and cliffs along it. It would likely be cheaper per km as well.
I think it would be speculation to say which part is cheaper. But you are right, the hard part was already done when they completed ON-11 and ON-17. Expanding is always much easier.

The terrain, while somewhat different, is not drastically different than around Saguenay once you get out of the depression.
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:54 PM
BMI
 
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
Yes. As you pointed out, and the map shows, Saguenay is on the tertiary edge of the shield. North of Superior is right through the heart. Also Quebec City is not on the shield, nor is 99 percent of that highway.


It's sort of like saying: I've been to Galveston, so I know exactly what Texas' beaches are like.
You've taken a non-representative example and drawn the conclusion to the whole.
Not sure about your saying 99 percent of that highway is not on the shield, my understanding would
be just the opposite, 99 percent on the shield, the St. Lawrence lowlands end just east of Quebec City.
Though I'll differ to your superior knowledge being a geologist working in the oil exploration
industry.

Anyway, they blasted through the shield more than 50 years ago to put through the TCH
in northern Ontario, I'm they could bo it again today to twin it, only big problem is it will
cost a lot more today to do it.
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
10,789 posts, read 9,425,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI View Post
Not sure about your saying 99 percent of that highway is not on the shield, my understanding would
be just the opposite, 99 percent on the shield, the St. Lawrence lowlands end just east of Quebec City.
Though I'll differ to your superior knowledge being a geologist working in the oil exploration
industry.

Anyway, they blasted through the shield more than 50 years ago to put through the TCH
in northern Ontario, I'm they could bo it again today to twin it, only big problem is it will
cost a lot more today to do it.
Good points. I'd say that 90% of the route from QC to Saguenay along 75 is in the Shield.

Rock has already been blasted on TCH. If there was political will, it would get done.

It seems Quebec just seems to focus more on roads, at least to the important parts. I mean, it even has roads up to Hudson Bay and up to Labrador.
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