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Old 01-03-2017, 06:44 PM
 
Location: In transition
10,138 posts, read 11,906,117 times
Reputation: 4435

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I have thought this for a long time and there is plenty of evidence to support this. This article pretty much articulates my feelings on the issue. We need to stop pretending we care about the north and the people there and face reality that we don't want to make it a priority and develop the proper infrastructure to improve the lives of people there and increase potential wealth for all Canadians. Here is the article
The North and the great Canadian lie - Macleans.ca

What do you think?
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Old 01-03-2017, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,102 posts, read 1,462,675 times
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Absolutely. We're a joke when it comes to developing this country. It's pathetic.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:06 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,284 posts, read 6,607,347 times
Reputation: 14327
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
I have thought this for a long time and there is plenty of evidence to support this. This article pretty much articulates my feelings on the issue. We need to stop pretending we care about the north and the people there and face reality that we don't want to make it a priority and develop the proper infrastructure to improve the lives of people there and increase potential wealth for all Canadians. Here is the article
The North and the great Canadian lie - Macleans.ca

What do you think?
I don't agree.

Quote:

Making Canada a true northern nation will require real expenditures, hard tradeoffs, and difficult work. But, the question is, do we even want to?
I don't want to. I don't think it's necessary. If I don't want to see it invaded and exploited that doesn't mean I don't care about it. That guy is trying to make it sound like it's a unforegiveable crime to not develop and exploit and capitalize on Canada's northern resources but I don't believe it's a crime to leave it alone.

He says there's a total of 118,000 people living spread out all throughout Canada's most northern regions. I don't believe such a small number of people spread out over such vast expanses merits the expense of doing all the development and building extensive infrastructure such as the author is demanding. It's not practical.

If he wants to see improvements in the lives of the 118,000 residents of the north (which I DO agree with, because everyone benefits from improvements to their lives) I think he needs to suggest some better ideas for how to do that. Trashing the environment and exploiting resources that aren't needed at this time is not the way to do it.

.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:26 PM
 
Location: In transition
10,138 posts, read 11,906,117 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I don't agree.



I don't want to. I don't think it's necessary. If I don't want to see it invaded and exploited that doesn't mean I don't care about it. That guy is trying to make it sound like it's a unforegiveable crime to not develop and exploit and capitalize on Canada's northern resources but I don't believe it's a crime to leave it alone.

He says there's a total of 118,000 people living spread out all throughout Canada's most northern regions. I don't believe such a small number of people spread out over such vast expanses merits the expense of doing all the development and building extensive infrastructure such as the author is demanding. It's not practical.

If he wants to see improvements in the lives of the 118,000 residents of the north (which I DO agree with, because everyone benefits from improvements to their lives) I think he needs to suggest some better ideas for how to do that. Trashing the environment and exploiting resources that aren't needed at this time is not the way to do it.

.
What would you suggest as a way to improve the lives of northerners? Government subsidies? What about jobs, health care and education for northerners?
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,881 posts, read 2,388,231 times
Reputation: 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
I have thought this for a long time and there is plenty of evidence to support this. This article pretty much articulates my feelings on the issue. We need to stop pretending we care about the north and the people there and face reality that we don't want to make it a priority and develop the proper infrastructure to improve the lives of people there and increase potential wealth for all Canadians. Here is the article
The North and the great Canadian lie - Macleans.ca

What do you think?
I don't whomever wrote this actually knows just how Canada has tried to improve "FAR NORTH" life and development over the years. I actually worked up there for 2 years with the Aboriginals" on their Reserves in the HC Industry. So know full well just how Canadian Government and other Industries are trying to make there lives better!!

Just a few links~~

https://www.ontario.ca/rural-and-nor...-north-ontario

Canada's Northern Strategy: Our North, Our Heritage, Our Future

Table of Contents ( NOTE this is a 2009 article)

Quote:
Our North, Our Heritage
Canada’s Northern Strategy
Exercising Our Arctic Sovereignty
Promoting Social and Economic Development
Protecting our Environmental Heritage
Improving and Devolving Northern Governance
The international dimension of our Northern Strategy
Our North, Our Future
https://www.ontario.ca/page/far-nort...ing-initiative


Quote:
The Far North Act, which came into effect January 31, 2011, is the legislative foundation of land use planning in the Far North. The purpose of the act is to provide for community based land use planning in the Far North that:

sets out a joint planning process between the First Nations and Ontario
supports the environmental, social and economic objectives for land use planning for the peoples of Ontario
is done in a manner that is consistent with the recognition and affirmation of existing Aboriginal and treaty rights in section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982, including the duty to consult
https://www.ontarionature.org/protec..._north_act.php

Since deneb ( who appears to be located in BC) Just maybe look up your Provincial efforts.. I live in Ontario..so have a complete understanding of all efforts. Just a side note.. Taxes ( when doing Tax Returns) have always had extra deductions for those living Far north..because their COL due to location demands it!

Then of course the resources located north of 60 degrees latitude have always been recognized as a VALUABLE ASSET~


http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/110.../1100100037302

just a snippet~~
Quote:
Oil and Gas in Canada's North - Active Exploration and New Development
Approximately 40 percent of Canada's lands lie north of 60 degrees latitude. Vast areas lie beneath the shallow seas of the Arctic continental shelf and within the Arctic archipelago.

The combined land area of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut is over three million square kilometres, comprising diverse sedimentary basins, many with demonstrated high potential for oil and gas development.

During the 1980s, exploration and development in the territories slowed as the federal government and Aboriginal peoples focused on settling land claims in the North. With most of the Arctic claims settled, new global interest in Arctic oil and gas resource potential generally is fuelling re-investment in exploring Canada’s North.

Resurging Activity...
Northern oil and gas exploration and development supports economic and social components of the Government’s Northern Strategy. Working in partnership with northerners and Aboriginal peoples, government recognizes that northern oil and gas exploration and development is a key component of the future economic well-being of northern Canada.

A regularized system for annual exploration rights issuance was successfully implemented in the late 1980s in the Beaufort Sea/Mackenzie Delta region and the central and parts of the southern Mackenzie Valley beginning in 1994. Regular annual calls have since been held in both the Sahtu and Gwich'in regions of the central Mackenzie Valley and in the Beaufort Sea/Mackenzie Delta of the Inuvialuit Settlement Region. In 2000, annual calls for nominations began in the Sverdrup Basin of the Arctic Islands of Nunavut.

Today, industry is investing in new oil and gas exploration in the Mackenzie Valley near existing pipeline infrastructure at Norman Wells. Following a decade of activity on the Mackenzie Delta, companies have now expanded their focus further offshore into deep water in areas which have not been previously explored.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:58 PM
 
Location: In transition
10,138 posts, read 11,906,117 times
Reputation: 4435
Yeah I know there are some efforts but it doesn't appear to be enough. I haven't been everywhere in the north but this past summer I travelled to Inuvik and surrounding areas which is one of the better off communities in the north and even has a road connection and I could tell right away that life there appeared quite hard. It's not an easy place to live and not just because of the weather. I took these pictures of the price of gas and cheese. Imagine paying these prices?



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Old 01-03-2017, 08:59 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,284 posts, read 6,607,347 times
Reputation: 14327
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
What would you suggest as a way to improve the lives of northerners? Government subsidies? What about jobs, health care and education for northerners?
I'm not going to make suggestions for those people. I'm saying I don't agree with the author's suggestions or his reasons about exploiting Canada's northern resources. He wrote an article expressing his opinions but that's all they are, his opinions. Just because he wrote an article with his opinions doesn't mean he's qualifed to determine what is best for northerners or for Canada's northern territories and natural resources or for the rest of Canada. I think he's using the northern people's isolation and lifestyle as an excuse to encourage invasion, expansion, exploitation and profiteering.

To me he sounds like he wants to "make Canada great".

.
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,451,761 times
Reputation: 3262
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Yeah I know there are some efforts but it doesn't appear to be enough. I haven't been everywhere in the north but this past summer I travelled to Inuvik and surrounding areas which is one of the better off communities in the north and even has a road connection and I could tell right away that life there appeared quite hard. It's not an easy place to live and not just because of the weather. I took these pictures of the price of gas and cheese. Imagine paying these prices?


We already over pay for cheese in the rest of Canada but that is just crazy.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:48 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,283,905 times
Reputation: 7586
interesting topic.

Before becoming all defensive, I think the author is largely right in pointing out all the facts. The fact is canada is not a northern country as it claims to be. All its people and economy and cultural offerings seem to be congregate as southern as they can. Canada is big but it is actually more like Chile, a thin sliver on top anther country.

However, as Zoisite points out, the author didn't provide a solution, and the fact is, no one can because there is no solution. The reason is simple, Canada has too few people even to inhabit the northern 80% of Ontario, or the praries provinces, not to mention to settle and develop its true north.

But should we build railways and have airports in the north as the author seems to imply? I don't think so. It will be a lost cause. It will be a lot cheaper to subsidize life in the north than trying to "develop" it. It will be prohibitively expensive and will no yield much return because Canada simply doesn't have the human and financial resources to tap it. Maybe in 200 years things will be different but to criticize the government for not tapping the northern regions, that's not fair.

So unless Canada allows massive numbers of immigrants (and would have to force them to live in the north, which is against the constitution), or sell our resources and land on a large scale, there is currently no solution.

And to some extent population alone is not even sufficient. China for example is not short of people. However, about 95% of the 1.3 billion Chinese live on the easter half of the country (the part in red below), and the huge western half is still largely sparsely populated and underdeveloped. Tiny Shanghai city has 25 million people, while massive Qinghai, more than 110 times larger, larger than Texas, has 5.5 million. The entire north province of Inner Mongolia, with a land area of 1.2 million sq km has the same population of Shanghai (6300 sq km).

So even if canada has twice or five times the people, the result is still likely a much larger Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, not prosperous Yukon or Nunavut because well establish regions will always serve as magnets to not only people, but also all resources because that's where they will be most productive.

So should the government force resources to be allocated elsewhere just for the sake of "development"? I don't believe so.


Last edited by botticelli; 01-04-2017 at 03:03 AM..
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:49 AM
 
5,097 posts, read 2,493,977 times
Reputation: 4657
This might be the wrong perspective, but if people want to live in the middle of no where, that is certainly their right. Given that people chose to live where there are no amenities, is it then government's responsibility to provide them?

It just seems like there is something wrong with this picture.
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