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Old 01-12-2017, 09:05 AM
 
2,567 posts, read 1,334,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
No they are not the same. the serves don't get the service charges on the bill. At the end of the day, the owner will not carve out that 15% and pay it to the waiters. Waiters get their fixed salary irrespective of whether business is great or slow. T Tipping, as you know, is quite the opposite. if there is no customer today, you have no tip because the employer is only responsible to pay for $3 an hour or whatever. To say it is a government mandated tip is missing the point, because income of waiters don't depend on how good or bad business is, or how generous customers are.

How can they be the same? in your "free market", servers take most of the income risk (from the economy, whether the food is good or not, customer generous or not), while in the "mandated" system, it is the business owner who takes the risk (obligated to pay a decent salary irrespective of factors mentioned).
I've never met a waiter who wishes that he worked on a salary. Not a single one. They all understand that there are good days and bad days. The same holds true for commission salespeople.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:07 AM
 
2,567 posts, read 1,334,146 times
Reputation: 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
I agree completely. You're just doing what you're supposed to be doing and not giving me any exceptional service, why should I give you a tip? I didn't get tips for doing that as a cashier at a store.
What's wrong with making a near minimum wage worker's life a tad brighter? The $.50 you drop in the bucket is painless, but if everybody did it, their lives would be a little bit easier.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,320,303 times
Reputation: 8601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
In most restaurants, the employer is required to report each server's tips and withhold payroll taxes accordingly. Most POS software will keep a record of all tips and they get reported monthly to the IRS. Perhaps back in the old days it was easy to avoid taxes, but today it's a lot tougher. A server might pocket a couple of bucks here and there, but the days of full blown tax evasion are pretty much done.
I agree that they've tried to rein things in a bit tax-wise (with some sucess), but cash tips are still off the books in almost all cases. That's why so many servers prefer a tip in cash even if you're paying with a card. (They'll tell you this if they know you or feel comfortable with you.)
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,320,303 times
Reputation: 8601
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
in that case, you should tip your bank cashier or shop assistant at the stores too, since they are paid minimum wage as well.

If you buy a $100 coat, do you tip the girl $15 who brought you all the clothes for trying on? She makes minimum wage in most cases.

Tipping is stupid, and is not applied consistently for this "minimum wage" argument.
Still agree with you. Helping someone choose clothes is also a highly personalized service, and there is never any tipping. Yes, some employees work on commission but that's very different from tipping.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:06 AM
 
Location: In transition
10,130 posts, read 11,866,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish & Chips View Post
Employers should reward high achievers with a raise, just like in the corporate world.

There is nothing wrong with tipping as an individual choice, but tipping culture (i.e. where everyone in the society feels pressured to tip) is problematic. It removes the responsibility of employers to pay their employees decently.
I agree with this point of view.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:15 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
I've never met a waiter who wishes that he worked on a salary. Not a single one. They all understand that there are good days and bad days. The same holds true for commission salespeople.
have you met many waiters outside Canada and US at all, who don't necessarily speak English?
The problem with tipping is that people can totally chose not to.

Plus, if what you said were true, why not extend to everyone else, not just waiters? Why not bus drivers? Why not teachers? Even public servants should be paid on tips as well.

This is why I said it is neither logic nor consistent. You strongly support it ONLY BECAUSE you do this job and think it works for you.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,668 posts, read 8,737,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I tip when it makes sense. Don't worry about it. And I have never have the luck to see a washroom attendant.

I don't mind "service charges" in the bill at all, for several reasons

1) It is included in the price that I see.
2) It doesn't let the restaurant owner off the hook for paying decent salary.
3) the amount of tip can often depend on factors other than service - pretty waitresses earn more tips. Also customers may tip less due to factors beyond servers control, for example, slow kitchen, bad food, noisy environment.
4) I don't want waiters smile or have chit chat with me because she expects more money at the end.

It is not about my unwillingness to pay people for their service, but rather the tipping culture and practice itself is ill designed and doesn't serve its purpose.
Here's how it works in France. That 15 percent " service compri " doesn't go directly to the servers. The owner of the restaurant collects that money and uses some of it to pay the wages of the servers. So your assumption that it doesn't leave the restaurant owner off the hook for paying a good wage is incorrect.

Servers in France make between 8 and 11 Euros per hour. Not much. The rely on the rounding up most people do. Say the bill is 33 Euros, and someone leave 35. In a busy cafe this can add up.

Your assumption that servers are smiling and be " chit chatty " only to get tips, is a very cynical view. However lately Botti, so many of your posts are cynical. What's up???

I was a server, on the trains and in a few restaurants in my time. I smiled, and was good at what I did, because like MOST people, I wanted to do a good job. It's called having some self-worth.
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,687 posts, read 6,531,390 times
Reputation: 8188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Here's how it works in France. That 15 percent " service compri " doesn't go directly to the servers. The owner of the restaurant collects that money and uses some of it to pay the wages of the servers. So your assumption that it doesn't leave the restaurant owner off the hook for paying a good wage is incorrect.

Servers in France make between 8 and 11 Euros per hour. Not much. The rely on the rounding up most people do. Say the bill is 33 Euros, and someone leave 35. In a busy cafe this can add up.

Your assumption that servers are smiling and be " chit chatty " only to get tips, is a very cynical view. However lately Botti, so many of your posts are cynical. What's up???

I was a server, on the trains and in a few restaurants in my time. I smiled, and was good at what I did, because like MOST people, I wanted to do a good job. It's called having some self-worth.
I have to spread the rep love around so, good post.
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,320,303 times
Reputation: 8601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Here's how it works in France. That 15 percent " service compri " doesn't go directly to the servers. The owner of the restaurant collects that money and uses some of it to pay the wages of the servers. So your assumption that it doesn't leave the restaurant owner off the hook for paying a good wage is incorrect.

Servers in France make between 8 and 11 Euros per hour. Not much. The rely on the rounding up most people do. Say the bill is 33 Euros, and someone leave 35. In a busy cafe this can add up.

.

Minimum wage in France is just under 10 euros an hour. So most servers are making the minimum wage, plus they have an opportunity to make a bit extra due to rounding that people do as you say, or a 5% tip that the French often leave them if they are really good.


In all but some exceptional cases, serving tables is close to a minimum wage job in most places in the world.


If the issue is that people can't survive doing this specific job, that's more of a minimum wage public policy issue than a tipping vs. no tipping issue.


Tipping shouldn't really be a half-assed substitute for legislation imposing fair and livable wages.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,668 posts, read 8,737,253 times
Reputation: 7279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Minimum wage in France is just under 10 euros an hour. So most servers are making the minimum wage, plus they have an opportunity to make a bit extra due to rounding that people do as you say, or a 5% tip that the French often leave them if they are really good.


In all but some exceptional cases, serving tables is close to a minimum wage job in most places in the world.


If the issue is that people can't survive doing this specific job, that's more of a minimum wage public policy issue than a tipping vs. no tipping issue.


Tipping shouldn't really be a half-assed substitute for legislation imposing fair and livable wages.
I agree. However until then? Either way, we are going to pay.

My " boeuf " with Botti ( sorry, couldn't help it ) is that he seems to be under the illusion that tipping doesn't exist in France, when we know it does.

Certainly it's not the same as in Canada, but I know if I was a server in France making 11 Euros an hour, I'd be a bit angry that " service compris " hinders my earnings since many people think of it as the tip that would go to me, and not the owner.
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