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Old 01-18-2017, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Canada
3,984 posts, read 2,772,138 times
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If you don't meet residency requirements in Canada, you are not entitled to free health care.

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Old 01-18-2017, 09:55 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,526 posts, read 6,734,967 times
Reputation: 14843
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Well yes, that is what happens when someone gives birth in another country.

Its a popular practice in the U.S too, and its protected under the constitution.

In the small pacific island territories, a huge percentage of the newborns there have Chinese parents, and there are even maternity hotels in California catering to Chinese families and some in Florida catering to Russian families.
Those are all rich birth tourists who have money to throw away. They pay big bucks for it. Yes, there is a well paying business in birth tourism.

You seem to be confused about who pays for what. When birth tourism foreigners come to Canada they have to pay up front for the services they receive. Accomodations, health care, hospital care, delivery of baby. Etc. The birth tourists pay for all of those things, not the taxpayer citizens of the country they're visiting.

Furthermore, if an obviously pregnant woman arrives at immigration/customs and can't demonstrate that she has the means to pay for all of those services the border officials won't permit her to enter Canada. They will send her back home to her home country to give birth there.

I hope you understand that in Canada, for foreigners to give birth in Canada does not mean that the child will automatically be entitled to rights and benefits of citizenship. The parents will get a birth certificate but that is all, and they must leave the country and take the child with them. The child cannot claim any rights of citizenship until after he becomes an adult and moves to Canada to live as a permanent resident in Canada. If the child does not become a permanent resident upon adulthood then he still will be considered a citizen by birth but he isn't eligible for any of the rights and benefits of a Canadian citizen. None.

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Old 01-18-2017, 10:26 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,842,140 times
Reputation: 9032
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
If you don't meet residency requirements in Canada, you are not entitled to free health care.

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Sorry but there must have been a misunderstanding, i don't really care about free health care and wasn't expecting to not pay anything..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Those are all rich birth tourists who have money to throw away. They pay big bucks for it. Yes, there is a well paying business in birth tourism.

You seem to be confused about who pays for what. When birth tourism foreigners come to Canada they have to pay up front for the services they receive. Accomodations, health care, hospital care, delivery of baby. Etc. The birth tourists pay for all of those things, not the taxpayer citizens of the country they're visiting.
Sorry but i don't believe i said that i wouldn't be paying for these things? lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Furthermore, if an obviously pregnant woman arrives at immigration/customs and can't demonstrate that she has the means to pay for all of those services the border officials won't permit her to enter Canada. They will send her back home to her home country to give birth there.

I hope you understand that in Canada, for foreigners to give birth in Canada does not mean that the child will automatically be entitled to rights and benefits of citizenship. The parents will get a birth certificate but that is all, and they must leave the country and take the child with them. The child cannot claim any rights of citizenship until after he becomes an adult and moves to Canada to live as a permanent resident in Canada. If the child does not become a permanent resident upon adulthood then he still will be considered a citizen by birth but he isn't eligible for any of the rights and benefits of a Canadian citizen. None.

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Well the plan was to have my future child have the option to move up there after he or she grows up so yes i do understand that.
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Old 01-18-2017, 10:50 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,526 posts, read 6,734,967 times
Reputation: 14843
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post

Sorry but there must have been a misunderstanding, i don't really care about free health care and wasn't expecting to not pay anything..

Sorry but i don't believe i said that i wouldn't be paying for these things? lol...
Vince, yes you did:

Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post

.......... the Canadian taxpayers may be paying for a non-Canadian mother giving birth to a child but that child may turn into a successful duel Canadian-American citizen so i think it will all pay off.
The implication there was that you would expect Canadian taxpayers to foot the bill for the birth of your child and you think it would pay off and be worth their expense because your child might be a successful citizen.

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Old 01-18-2017, 11:06 AM
 
2,567 posts, read 1,358,347 times
Reputation: 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Well yes, that is what happens when someone gives birth in another country.

Its a popular practice in the U.S too, and its protected under the constitution.

In the small pacific island territories, a huge percentage of the newborns there have Chinese parents, and there are even maternity hotels in California catering to Chinese families and some in Florida catering to Russian families.
I'm well aware that people do it in the US. Many of them stick the US taxpayer with the bill which is why I scoffed at your suggestion. As noted above, you were very clear that you expected the Canadians pick up the tab. There is not such thing as free healthcare, somebody always has to pay for it even if it isn't you.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:30 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,377,396 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
TI hope you understand that in Canada, for foreigners to give birth in Canada does not mean that the child will automatically be entitled to rights and benefits of citizenship. The parents will get a birth certificate but that is all, and they must leave the country and take the child with them. The child cannot claim any rights of citizenship until after he becomes an adult and moves to Canada to live as a permanent resident in Canada. If the child does not become a permanent resident upon adulthood then he still will be considered a citizen by birth but he isn't eligible for any of the rights and benefits of a Canadian citizen. None.

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But the child will still have the right to be a Canadian citizen any day he wants, until he dies, because of that birth certificate, and that's the problem.

If the children HAS to settle in Canada before a certain age and become a PR (such as by 25), then I probably will be more sympathetic. But we basically said, take your time to make the decision, but there is no dead line and you are ALWAYS welcome.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:08 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,194,225 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I hope you understand that in Canada, for foreigners to give birth in Canada does not mean that the child will automatically be entitled to rights and benefits of citizenship. The parents will get a birth certificate but that is all .... The child cannot claim any rights of citizenship until after he becomes an adult and moves to Canada to live as a permanent resident in Canada. If the child does not become a permanent resident upon adulthood then he still will be considered a citizen by birth but he isn't eligible for any of the rights and benefits of a Canadian citizen. None.

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I am curious what you are basing this statement on? What I read about the Citizenship Act states that citizenship is acquired by birth. Canada is not in the business of removing citizenship and I doubt we will start, that would be quite controversial. Any citizen has the right to enter and reside in Canada, under the Charter, so there would be no need for them to become a permanent resident.

I admit, I have far less sympathy for a wealthy birth tourist coming to Canada than I do for say a poor Latin American coming to the U.S. for better opportunities. Perhaps because I am uncomfortable with the notion that largely European-descended North Americans deciding that mostly mestizo or native Mexican or Central Americans that they have no path to residency. But that is another story.

Might Canada move away from jus soli for those whose parents have no status other than tourist? Perhaps. Unlike the U.S., which enshrines birthright citizenship in its constitution, I believe citizenship is governed primarily by an act of parliament and thus more subject to political winds. However, this would raise many questions that need to be answered. What of children born to asylee or refugee applicants? What of children born to undocument immigrants? Or temporary foreign workers? students? Many of these children may grow up in Canada. I certainly hope we will not start taking too many pages from the Trump playbook.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:13 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,194,225 times
Reputation: 569
Here's an odd one, admittedly wikipedia, but maybe an idea if the OP is an intrepid sailor.

"Under paragraph 3(1)(a) of the 1977 Citizenship Act, any person who was born in Canada after 14 February 1977 acquires Canadian citizenship at birth. The Interpretation Act states that the term "Canada" not only includes Canadian soil, but also "the internal waters" and "the territorial sea" of Canada, with the term "internal waters" being defined as including "the airspace above".[7] Hence, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada considers all children who were born over Canadian airspace as Canadian citizens.[8] In one 2008 case, a girl born to a Ugandan mother aboard a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Boston was deemed a Canadian citizen because she was born over Canadian airspace.[9]"
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:14 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,526 posts, read 6,734,967 times
Reputation: 14843
Quote:
Originally Posted by docwatson View Post
I am curious what you are basing this statement on? What I read about the Citizenship Act states that citizenship is acquired by birth. Canada is not in the business of removing citizenship and I doubt we will start, that would be quite controversial.
All of the above is true. Where did you get the idea anyone was suggesting removing citizenship? Nobody has said that or implied it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by docwatson View Post

Any citizen has the right to enter and reside in Canada, under the Charter, so there would be no need for them to become a permanent resident.
That is true but if they are a citizen by birth and want Canadian citizenship rights and benefits they are required to live and work in Canada and have a permanent home residence address in Canada.

I think you are confusing permanent residency of a citizen with the PR status of a PR immigrant to Canada who was born in another country and has not become a citizen of Canada after moving to Canada.

If a Canadian citizen by birth has lived all their life since infancy in another country and is still living in another country they are a Canadian citizen by birth with a birth certificate to show for it. They may apply for a passport and visit and come and go as they please as a visitor once they reach adulthood but without any of the rights and benefits of citizenship. All they have is a birth certificate / passport that entitles them to enter the country. They may apply for a social insurance number too.

If that person wants all the legal rights and protections, the right to vote, the social and health benefits, the financial benefits and pensions that come with citizenship they are required to relocate permanently to Canada and must take up residency in Canada. Living and working in Canada. Paying taxes in Canada. They must establish permanent roots and responsibilities in Canada as a citizen of and in Canada.

They don't get any rights and benefits without earning them.

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 01-24-2017 at 12:24 AM..
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:25 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,194,225 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
All of the above is true. Where did you get the idea anyone was suggesting removing citizenship? Nobody has said that or implied it.

That is true but if they are a citizen by birth and want Canadian citizenship rights and benefits they are required to live and work in Canada and have a permanent home residence address in Canada.

I think you are confusing permanent residency of a citizen with the PR status of a PR immigrant to Canada who was born in another country and has not become a citizen of Canada after moving to Canada.

If a Canadian citizen by birth has lived all their life since infancy in another country and is still living in another country they are a Canadian citizen by birth with a birth certificate to show for it. They may apply for a passport and visit and come and go as they please as a visitor once they reach adulthood but without any of the rights and benefits of citizenship. All they have is a birth certificate / passport that entitles them to enter the country. They may apply for a social insurance number too.

If that person wants all the legal rights and protections, the right to vote, the social and health benefits, the financial benefits and pensions that come with citizenship they are required to relocate permanently to Canada and must take up residency in Canada. Living and working in Canada. Paying taxes in Canada. They must establish permanent roots and responsibilities in Canada as a citizen of and in Canada.

They don't get any rights and benefits without earning them.

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I see what you are saying but do think you are confounding rights of citizenship versus rights that accrue to people in Canada by other criteria - legal residency, longetivity, etc. A citizen is still a citizen. The social benefits you refer to have certain requirements to qualify. For example, health care benefits require residency in a province, often for at least three months (as of course we know). This is not a benefit of citizenship, as it is available to permanent residents, temporary foreign workers, TN visa holders, students, etc. residing here. Old Age Security is available to those who have lived a certain number of years in Canada - whether as permanent residents or citizens. CPP is a defined contribution pension so it would be determined by what one paid. But a citizen is entitled to the same rights and privileges regardless of tenure in Canada. When they come into Canada, they are not visitors, and are not exercising a right to visit, but are deemed "returning Canadians."

It is similar to the U.S. - one qualifies for Medicare and Social Security by accruing points for years worked (40 points/10 years for full benefits).

The rights of citizenship, on the other hand, I would see as the right to enter in and live in Canada, work here, vote according to the rules of residency, etc.

We currently limit or don't offer absentee voting so that is one where you would have to live here to exercise, I would agree. I think this makes sense if one had not lived here in a long time. (Witness Brits who've been in Victoria for 40 years, proudly voting for Brexit!) Interestingly, prior to the Charter, voting was not a right of citizenship but, in the British tradition, it was parliament who decided who could vote (!)

Then there are agreements with other countries - for example, one can combine years worked in Canada and the U.S. to qualify for U.S. social security or Canadian benefits.
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