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One thing I've noticed when looking at Toronto and Montreal is that Montreal or at least the nabe's in the city proper seem to have pretty impressive uniform low to mid-rise density. Old Toronto is like this as well but not to the extent of Montreal city proper. Old Toronto's mid-rise density is more prevalent on commercial arterials with less dense Victorian Bay and Gable type residential housing intersecting those commercial arterials. Montreal on the other hand has this more prevalent low-midrise rowhouse/triplex type density across the board including residential streets. Both cities have this ongoing pre WWII type residential/commercial density that just goes on forever. I think in this way they are more similar than any other two cities in the country - this sort of large swaths of Pre WWII residential/commercial bones.
On the flip side, Montreal doesn't have nearly as many highrises as Toronto, so Toronto's density has more clustered nodes of much higher density than Montreal. This is why when you get down to Census tracts or Dissemination areas, Toronto can pretty much slaughter other cities in Canada in terms of clustered areas of high density. Vancouver is like this in a way, just not to the extent of Toronto. In this way Vancouver and Toronto share more similarities than with Montreal. One Dissemination area in Toronto within St Jamestown has over 100K people in .07 sq kms - totally insane! Toronto's contiguous urbanized area is also much larger than Montreal, so you obviously feel like on a macro level you are in a bigger city and metro but on street level, and in particular random residential streets in Montreal city proper vs Toronto city proper, you'd almost feel as though Montreal is bigger. Even nabe's close to the DT core of Toronto can feel surprisingly 'homey' but then suddenly you hit a highrise cluster or node with much higher density and it smacks you in the head that this is the largest city in Canada pretty quickly.
I think a big part of this is due to the fact that Montreal was the largest city in Canada up until the middle of the 20th century, so the density was a reflection of the time. Toronto has been the largest city in Canada for the last 70 or so years and its density is a reflection of built form reflecting this period which is more highrise in nature. If Toronto continues to grow over the next 50 years as it has over the last 50, I think its going to be an incredibly highrise city with a massive DT core that will become very Hong kongish which we are already starting to see over the last decade.
One thing I've noticed when looking at Toronto and Montreal is that Montreal or at least the nabe's in the city proper seem to have pretty impressive uniform low to mid-rise density. Old Toronto is like this as well but not to the extent of Montreal city proper. Old Toronto's mid-rise density is more prevalent on commercial arterials with less dense Victorian Bay and Gable type residential housing intersecting those commercial arterials. Montreal on the other hand has this more prevalent low-midrise rowhouse/triplex type density across the board including residential streets. Both cities have this ongoing pre WWII type residential/commercial density that just goes on forever. I think in this way they are more similar than any other two cities in the country - this sort of large swaths of Pre WWII residential/commercial bones.
On the flip side, Montreal doesn't have nearly as many highrises as Toronto, so Toronto's density has more clustered nodes of much higher density than Montreal. This is why when you get down to Census tracts or Dissemination areas, Toronto can pretty much slaughter other cities in Canada in terms of clustered areas of high density. Vancouver is like this in a way, just not to the extent of Toronto. One Dissemination area in Toronto within St Jamestown has over 100K people in .07 sq kms - totally insane! Toronto's contiguous urbanized area is also much larger than Montreal, so you obviously feel like on a macro level you are in a bigger city and metro but on street level, and in particular random residential streets in Montreal city proper vs Toronto city proper, you'd almost feel as though Montreal is bigger. Even nabe's close to the DT core of Toronto can feel surprisingly 'homey' but then suddenly you hit a highrise cluster or node with much higher density and it smacks you in the head that this is the largest city in Canada pretty quickly.
I think a big part of this is due to the fact that Montreal was the largest city in Canada up until the middle of the 20th century, so the density was a reflection of the time. Toronto has been the largest city in Canada for the last 70 or so years and its density is a reflection of built form reflecting this period which is more highrise in nature. If Toronto continues to grow over the next 50 years as it has over the last 50, I think its going to be an incredibly highrise city with a massive DT core that will become very Hong kongish.
Good points. One nitpick: Toronto only became Canada's largest city around 1980, so about 40 years ago.
Good points. One nitpick: Toronto only became Canada's largest city around 1980, so about 40 years ago.
Nitpick your nitpick 1 lol... Montreal was bigger than Toronto up until 1998 before amalgamation - however that is just a result of those silly arbitrary borders. I think at one point North York had more people than Toronto (Old Toronto).
Nitpick your nitpick 2... I think as a CMA or metro area Toronto matched Montreal in the 50's and started to pull ahead in the 60's.. I should have clarified earlier about metro vs city.
Nitpick your nitpick 1 lol... Montreal was bigger than Toronto up until 1998 before amalgamation - however that is just a result of those silly arbitrary borders. I think at one point North York had more people than Toronto (Old Toronto).
Nitpick your nitpick 2... I think as a CMA or metro area Toronto matched Montreal in the 50's and started to pull ahead in the 60's.. I should have clarified earlier about metro vs city.
If i'm wrong though nitpick away by all means
Well, I was using CMAs (which I always do when ranking cities), and I am pretty sure that it was around 1980 that Toronto CMA overtook Montreal CMA.
If we're talking city proper, I think at one point just before the megacity merger Calgary was bigger than Toronto, and was Canada's second largest "city" behind Montreal.
In 1975 metro Toronto had 2.77 million vs 2.79 for metro Montreal. In 1980 Montreal had 2.8 million and Toronto 3.00 million. Realistically the tipping point in Metro Toronto's favour probably occurred in 1976. By 1977 metro Toronto was ahead. I would have thought it was earlier given the current size of the GTA/Horseshoe vs Greater Montreal these days but 43 years is a long time still.. What might have thrown me off was growth rates in that by the 50's metro Toronto was probably growing faster than Greater Montreal.
Last edited by fusion2; 03-27-2017 at 09:17 PM..
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- however that is just a result of those silly arbitrary borders. I think at one point North York had more people than Toronto (Old Toronto).
