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Crystal clear? You mean when you were arguing the obtain an hand gun legally in Canada was as easy as it was in the US, except having " to jump through a few more hoops" ?
Then were proven wrong?
I was never proven wrong.....yes, in Canada a person with no criminal record and no mental issues can obtain a handgun...like in the US....minus CCW rights...case closed...I hope for good...I do not care how many days the RCMP take before clearing someone, one month, two, three?? Whatever..once cleared you are good to go.....and potentially you can lose few screws down the road.
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Now your first paragraph in this post is deflecting away from obtaining firearms legally in Canada, to having one stolen, or stealing one? Nothing to do with the topic of legally obtaining firearms. The sounds of someone who has no argument anymore since the laws and facts about obtaining firearms in Canada has been show to you time and time again.
My Gosh, go back and read what I wrote....I said nothing prevent someone that has legally obtained a firearm in Canada OR has access to one (through family for example) from going nuts....
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Your second paragraph admits that the US system is severely flawed, and people who shouldn't have been able to buy guns in a store legally, have done so, or at least have done so without the proper checks.
I always advocated for background checks for private transactions....do you actually read my posts?? Yes, in that regard the law need to be fixed and federally mandated....how many times I said that??
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But who need gun stores when you have gun shows? Washington State requires background checks on all firearm purchases..but hey. I can cross over to Idaho where they don't. Kind of makes Washington's state law useless if it's intended to stop people who shouldn't be buying guns.
Most states do NOT require background checks at guns shows, a few do, and a few require it for hand guns only.
What you have in the US is a myriad of different laws, applied differently in each state, and the most bizarre of all, dependent if you walk into a store, or a gun show.
My argument has always been the same.
My Gosh again Nat!! I already addressed the non-existent Gun show loophole....you took a leave of absence from this thread, re-entered and missed what has been written already about gun shows...there is no freaking loophole...simply some gun shows accept private seller benches where the transaction is between private individuals residing in the same state ..is no different than buying a gun from someone else home or on an internet buy/sell board and so on....is not specific to gun shows (and if the private seller at a gun show start doing significant volumes in a year, the ATF would come at him like a ton of bricks) ......and yes that need to be fixed, meaning federally mandatory background checks for all private sales.
In practice I can tell you that in the vast majority of private gun transactions the seller wants to deal with someone that has a CCW permit (meaning people that have already passed a background check) because so he can cover his/her behind against potential legal problems down the road....but, again, again and again, that need to be fixed, we totally agree on that 100%
Please comment only on things you know something about.
Last edited by saturno_v; 03-08-2018 at 04:21 PM..
Here in Helena, MT, we have a skeet shooting range in the city limits. Be wary of making blanket statements. Just because you don't like to shoot, doesn't mean that everybody else feels the same as you. I love shooting, I love hunting. I taught all of my kids to shoot, my wife as well.
Well city limits can be pretty arbitrary. Some cities the outer limits are downright in the boons. Toronto is different from Helena - it is a densely populated and very large urban area. I wouldn't be in favour of ANY skeet shooting within the city limits.
I totally get not everyone feels the same as I do. I'm also not going to judge people who enjoy hunting or skeet shooting for sport. All said, there is a difference between skeet shooting with whatever gun you use vs an AR-15. Do you skeet shoot with that or a semi-automatic rifle?
If you keep using the term "assault rifles" do not get offended when I tell you that you do not understand anything about guns...we do not have assault rifles available to civilians in the US, period.
Ban Semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15, period.
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Originally Posted by saturno_v
We do not need the trial system you suggest...we have a lot of examples I exposed before....a lot of US border states (to Canada) have similar murder rate than the bordering Canadian provinces with these US states being very permissive on guns, BC vs. WA is a perfect example....here you go.
It is a societal problem.
We're not talking about murder rates - we are talking about mass shootings. Since you brought it up though, why would you compare murder rates for selective States? Shouldn't you compare the murder rates of all states vs all provinces? Or are you just limiting your comparisons to fit the narrative you want to portray? The United States isn't just made up of Border States with Canada.
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Originally Posted by netwit
To point one, logically if it hurts when I hit myself with a hammer, I stop doing that. So if you want fewer mass shootings, banning guns or making them much harder to get would accomplish that.
.
No matter how much one wants to dance around the topic and even if he tries to diminish the opinion of others simply because they don't live and breath guns, the fact of the matter is what you said underlined while pretty straightforward, is essentially the gist of it. It doesn't even have to apply to one specific country - it applies to all.
I totally get not everyone feels the same as I do. I'm also not going to judge people who enjoy hunting or skeet shooting for sport. All said, there is a difference between skeet shooting with whatever gun you use vs an AR-15. Do you skeet shoot with that or a semi-automatic rifle?
You skeet shoot with a shotgun, not any kind of rifle.
You skeet shoot with a shotgun, not any kind of rifle.
I know I was being facetious. What I do know is that mass shooting killers are not using shotguns when they are killing all these kids, they are using semi-automatic rifles even though some would like to equate them as the same thing. If assault rifles were legal and the weapon of choice in mass shootings, I bet you people like Saturno would be in here defending their legality.
"But the thousands of gun seizure requests highlight persistent problems in a system where analysts must complete background checks within three days of the proposed purchase. If the background check is not complete within the 72-hour time limit, federal law allows the sale to go forward. ATF agents are asked to take back the guns if the FBI later finds these sales should have been denied."
How stupid is that? The process should take place within three days but if it doesn't and runs over 5 days you get to take your new gun home regardless. ATF is responsible for firearm retrieval upon background check failure and admits it could take up to a year for them to retrieve firearms.
I was never proven wrong.....yes, in Canada a person with no criminal record and no mental issues can obtain a handgun...like in the US....minus CCW rights...case closed...I hope for good...I do not care how many days the RCMP take before clearing someone, one month, two, three?? Whatever..once cleared you are good to go.....and potentially you can lose few screws down the road.
My Gosh, go back and read what I wrote....I said nothing prevent someone that has legally obtained a firearm in Canada OR has access to one (through family for example) from going nuts....
I always advocated for background checks for private transactions....do you actually read my posts?? Yes, in that regard the law need to be fixed and federally mandated....how many times I said that??
My Gosh again Nat!! I already addressed the non-existent Gun show loophole....you took a leave of absence from this thread, re-entered and missed what has been written already about gun shows...there is no freaking loophole...simply some gun shows accept private seller benches where the transaction is between private individuals residing in the same state ..is no different than buying a gun from someone else home or on an internet buy/sell board and so on....is not specific to gun shows (and if the private seller at a gun show start doing significant volumes in a year, the ATF would come at him like a ton of bricks) ......and yes that need to be fixed, meaning federally mandatory background checks for all private sales.
In practice I can tell you that in the vast majority of private gun transactions the seller wants to deal with someone that has a CCW permit (meaning people that have already passed a background check) because so he can cover his/her behind against potential legal problems down the road....but, again, again and again, that need to be fixed, we totally agree on that 100%
Please comment only on things you know something about.
This is how far I got, and as far as I'm going to go with your response.
You are being intellectually dishonest.
You KNOW darn well that you are leaving out the fact that in Canada hand guns regulations are NOT the same as in the US except for CCW rights. You KNOW, as Chevy has pointed out numerous times, that in Canada you can not get a hand gun for protection. That there are three main reasons you may be allowed to purchase a restricted weapon. Employment, target shooting ( with proof you belong to a club ) and being a collector.
Those three things PLUS wanting one for protection , show you how different the regulations are. It's the law. It's been shown to you NUMEROUS times, and yet you still post that the only difference is CCW rights.
"But the thousands of gun seizure requests highlight persistent problems in a system where analysts must complete background checks within three days of the proposed purchase. If the background check is not complete within the 72-hour time limit, federal law allows the sale to go forward. ATF agents are asked to take back the guns if the FBI later finds these sales should have been denied."
How stupid is that? The process should take place within three days but if it doesn't and runs over 5 days you get to take your new gun home regardless. ATF is responsible for firearm retrieval upon background check failure and admits it could take up to a year for them to retrieve firearms.
Lying on the application form can bring serious consequences.......providing it's even pursued by law enforcement.
The system can and should be modernized...about being a "parody" is not true at all...people get denied....all the time...
There is not reason why with modern data mining systems and procedures in place, the current NICS background check should not be improved dramatically...on this we totally agree...so on the improvement of this process and extending it to private sales, you will have no argument from me...we agree...
I also support a mandatory firearm course and proficiency test for CCW holders and hunters.
Last edited by saturno_v; 03-09-2018 at 05:17 PM..
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