Drive from Toronto - Montreal? (university, shops, land)

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by QuebecOpec

The topic maker asked under what conditions he will get along in English and I answered that question.

And it makes absolutely no sense.

[DawnMTL]

Originally Posted by barneyg

Please don’t turn what was a honest question by a tourist into yet another political thread.

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

WTF are you rambling about?

Originally Posted by QuebecOpec

The topic maker asked under what conditions he will get along in English and I answered that question.

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

And it makes absolutely no sense.

Right.
Right?
No.
Right.

I was born and bred in Montreal and *never* spoke French in all the years I lived there. I got along juuuust fine, as will the OP.

OP -- have a blast!!! Don't worry about ze French. You won't need it.

ETA: Oh, and wear a Canada t-shirt. They're sold everywhere in Montreal, too, despite what QuebecOp is alluding to.

[QuebecOpec]

Originally Posted by DawnMTL

I was born and bred in Montreal and *never* spoke French in all the years I lived there. I got along juuuust fine, as will the OP.

OP -- have a blast!!! Don't worry about ze French. You won't need it.

ETA: Oh, and wear a Canada t-shirt. They're sold everywhere in Montreal, too, despite what QuebecOp is alluding to.

This is a shame and nothing you should be proud of, as you have ignored and avoided French at all times in a city that by law is French only and still has a vanishingly small French-majority within its city limits.

French has been mandatory at English schools for several decades now and probably therefore you knew French, but you did not make the slightest effort to ever speak it. You grew up, lived there and you took advantage of all Montréalais knowing English, without ever doing the reverse.



You are a prime example that Montréal's bilingualism is a one-way street, where it's mostly francophones who use English upon request or as a conversational answer, while anglophones rarely ever use French and expect others to know English.



You shamelessly exploited the superiority of English and deployed it in all your daily interactions, contributing to effective anglicization and totally neglecting the francophone character of Montréal.

Québec's government and most francophones do not expect anglophones to switch their language (obviously it's more likely that Ivanka Trump becomes president or that New York is hit by a gigantic 150 meter high tidal wave than anglophones using French initially in the first place), but it welcomes them to at least occasionally every once in a while use French to set a sign that bilingualism comes from both sides.



20 years ago English was not as omnipresent as it is now, probably you were living in a segragated English-speaking bubble and you did not embrace the opportunity to engage in activities that involved French, even though you had a lot of chances to do so. Are you proud of it?



Yes, the Canadian constitution grants the right to live in English-only everywhere in Canada, including Montréal, so does it also grant everyone, including Québécois, the right to dislike anglophones for the afore-mentioned reasons. There also many more reasons why it is like that.

Now, the topic maker might understand why it is very well possible that speaking English is looked down.


I tell the topic maker once again; you will be served in English 'cause your money is king, but that doesn't mean that people will like you. That being said, tourists are more liked and welcome than 20-years-living-in-Montréal-and-still-not-speaking-French-and-not-even-in-30-years-people. In the services sectors, they are forced by their employers to use English, so they will force a smile, serve you, for most it will be a neutral and normal situation and they won't think neither good nor bad about you as they are used to it - some will secretly dislike you, though. There are many reasons. And this is the truth that most ain't gonna tell ya.

Don't cross the line with a Canada T-shirt - please follow my advice and don't wear it in Montréal - that's as unpopular as Ariane Grande's recommendation to be vegan on Thanksgiving day, Miley Cyrus' twerking in ultraconservative circles, the remark that Estonia is an independent country in Russia, Karl Marx' Communist Manifesto in neoliberal conferences and Merkel's guidances in Hungary.

[DawnMTL]

My work here is done.

And I will leave this thread -- which is starting to feel like 1940s Germany under the Hitler regime, just like all the English/French threads here with those long posts that go on FOREVER -- with my head held high. Because I live in CANADA.

[QuebecOpec]

Originally Posted by DawnMTL

My work here is done.

And I will leave this thread -- which is starting to feel like 1940s Germany under the Hitler regime, just like all the English/French threads here with those long posts that go on FOREVER -- with my head held high. Because I live in CANADA.

It's a violation of all moral standards to compare Québec's striving and ambitions to secure French, including the demand to at least occasionally use French for longtime residents, with Nazi Germany that attacked East Central Europe and systematically wiped out Jews.



Anglophones in Québec are the world's most spoilt and overprivileged minority; they have access to English schools, overproportionately overfinanced English universities, English services, communications with the city, all in English, etc. Their gratitude? Ignoring and refusing everything French & Comparing Québec's linguistic policy with Germany under Hitler. One more major reasons why francophones dislike anglophones...

If you want to leave this thread, I hope you're leaving it for history courses (which I doubt). European history courses that tell you about Hitler's regime and North American history classes how the anglophones suppressed French Canadians for over 100 years and who is to blamed in first place why French has become so weak. It's an easy thing for anglophones to marginalize French to a minimum in the past, and once it has become so weak and Québécois try to upvalue it, suddenly Anglos claim some supraconstitutional rights that they themeselves have denied for non-anglophone North Americans for over 100 years.

And just by the way, your beloved Canada that you are so proud of, was no better than Nazi Germany, Canada has exterminated and eradicated countless of Native-American-Indians.
Canada was even more horrible and morally more to be condemned than Nazi Germany, because Canada has totally exterminated entire tribes and peoples, while Poland and the Czech republic continue as a folk. And just one more info, when the war in Europe was over in 1945 and Germany had been stopped, Canada still had internment camps for Asians. Yes, Canada has many dark sides and is at least as cruel as Nazi Germany.


So, if you want to feel like 1940s Germany - which is absolutely not necessary as all as there can be no paralell drawn between Q.'s linguistic policy and claims and Hitler - Canada is closer, at least as horrifying as Germany has been, and more appropriate for you, since you are Canadian.


So you may want to feel like historic Germany, others may want to feel like returning to the original question. Though, everything is interrelated and a valid answer to the question why English can be looked down and is not always welcome in Montréal.

[Arcenal813]

Dude, are you on drugs???

[QuebecOpec]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

Dude, are you on drugs???

One more indifferent comment. You just wish to block out inconvenient truths. Sad to see how many anglophones only care about their own culture and then write unhelpful comments and questions.

[netwit]

^^bye

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by QuebecOpec

It's a violation of all moral standards to compare Québec's striving and ambitions to secure French, including the demand to at least occasionally use French for longtime residents, with Nazi Germany that attacked East Central Europe and systematically wiped out Jews.



Anglophones in Québec are the world's most spoilt and overprivileged minority; they have access to English schools, overproportionately overfinanced English universities, English services, communications with the city, all in English, etc. Their gratitude? Ignoring and refusing everything French & Comparing Québec's linguistic policy with Germany under Hitler. One more major reasons why francophones dislike anglophones...

If you want to leave this thread, I hope you're leaving it for history courses (which I doubt). European history courses that tell you about Hitler's regime and North American history classes how the anglophones suppressed French Canadians for over 100 years and who is to blamed in first place why French has become so weak. It's an easy thing for anglophones to marginalize French to a minimum in the past, and once it has become so weak and Québécois try to upvalue it, suddenly Anglos claim some supraconstitutional rights that they themeselves have denied for non-anglophone North Americans for over 100 years.

And just by the way, your beloved Canada that you are so proud of, was no better than Nazi Germany, Canada has exterminated and eradicated countless of Native-American-Indians.
Canada was even more horrible and morally more to be condemned than Nazi Germany, because Canada has totally exterminated entire tribes and peoples, while Poland and the Czech republic continue as a folk. And just one more info, when the war in Europe was over in 1945 and Germany had been stopped, Canada still had internment camps for Asians. Yes, Canada has many dark sides and is at least as cruel as Nazi Germany.


So, if you want to feel like 1940s Germany - which is absolutely not necessary as all as there can be no paralell drawn between Q.'s linguistic policy and claims and Hitler - Canada is closer, at least as horrifying as Germany has been, and more appropriate for you, since you are Canadian.


So you may want to feel like historic Germany, others may want to feel like returning to the original question. Though, everything is interrelated and a valid answer to the question why English can be looked down and is not always welcome in Montréal.

In as much as Hitler wanted a race of pure Germans with blonde hair and blue eyes you are exhibiting similar cultural needs in your demand for a pure French culture here in Quebec, your uncompromising wish for a pure francophone culture here in Quebec has led you to the emotion of hate / delusion and bitterness concerning your fellow citizens of Quebec who happen to be Anglophone,You have developed a victim mentality that sounds juvenile and pathetic, You are a poor ambassador for your francophone culture as your attitude is very similar to Hitlers dream of the master Aryan race only in your case you are putting forth the idea of the master francophone culture.

[QuebecOpec]

Originally Posted by jambo101

In as much as Hitler wanted a race of pure Germans with blonde hair and blue eyes you are exhibiting similar cultural needs in your demand for a pure French culture here in Quebec, your uncompromising wish for a pure francophone culture here in Quebec has led you to the emotion of hate / delusion and bitterness concerning your fellow citizens of Quebec who happen to be Anglophone,You have developed a victim mentality that sounds juvenile and pathetic, You are a poor ambassador for your francophone culture as your attitude is very similar to Hitlers dream of the master Aryan race only in your case you are putting forth the idea of the master francophone culture.

Your comparison is extremely scandalous and beyond outrageous. Equating Hitler's regime with the encouragement to use French is ABSURD.


Do you actually yourself realize the massive difference between what Hitler was doing and Québes's linguistic policy and further claims to secure French? It seems you don't.



French is a global language that is spoken by White Europeans, by Black Africans, by Brown Africans, by Black inhabitants of the Carribean islands, etc. Speaking French is neither tied nor a marker of RACE and ETHNICITY!
Furthermore, French is a polycentric language that is not tied to a single culture.
Francophone culture is multicultural culture, spanning numerous different cultures and cultural tribes between Tahiti in the Pacific Ocean, Madagascar, Cameroon, Martinique, Québec, France, Côte d'Ivoire, Sénégal and Congo. They are all welcome in Québec, like all people who show interest in speaking French, and surprise, surprise, nothing in the world forbids or makes it impossible for anglophones to learn French and it should be normal to use it in a city and province that has a French-majority. And surprise, surprise there's been numerous allophones who learnt French and use it and never thaught that demanding French is a violation of human rights.


If anything, jambo, you have a victim mentality, a tremendous victim mentality, you and DawnMTL cross the line by playing the ultimative victim card and using the Hitler argument. You simply withdraw from all rational discussion.

Both of your arguments are so incredibly groundless. Do German who migrate to Ontario have the right to attend German-speaking public schools, refering to their historical larger presence, can they expect to be served in stores in German? Do Chinese people who mgirate to BC have the right to send their kids to public Chinese schools? Can Slovenian people expect to be served in Slovenian in Alberta and Ontario? Do Japanese people and other Asians have these rights, refering to their historical larger presence in Canada - since they were put into internment camps by Canada in the 20th century? What about all the larger ethnic communities in Toronto, can they decide to use their tax money to funding solely their own ethnic communities in Toronto and get services in their language? Do they equate the inevitability to use English in the public sphere with Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany, are they going to court and sue the government? They don't. If we applied your ludicrous (jambo's and DawnMTLs) logics to the rest of Canada, the rest of Canada would also fall under the category of 1940s Germany.


In a previous post you told me that it is pointless discussing with me, well, I think it's pointless discussing with some who equals the ambitions of francophones to empower French with Hitler's dream of an Aryan race.