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Old 08-10-2019, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,662 posts, read 11,222,515 times
Reputation: 3792

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
It's would be almost impossible to deal with it, as Trudeau proudly has stated that Canada has no identity, and that it is a post national state.

In other words, Canada is not really a nation but just a government. Nations are characterized by some kind of distinct culture or identity. There was never a drive to create some sort of Canadian nation, the entire point of Canada was to be the opposite of that and remain a British colony.

Actual nations like Quebec, the U.S., and others are characterized in Canada as being racist, in your face nationalistic, aggressive, etc for having developed a culture and/or identity.

Nations just sort of happen. They aren't created because a government reigns over a particular territory. There has to be some sort of common identity, which doesn't exist in Canada. Look at English vs. French, just for starters.
After the whole SNC Lavalin affair, i'm not really caring too much about what J.T has to say these days about any topic tbh.

As for Canada - I disagree, I think we are a nation. We are in a national union where there are Federal laws and whether you like it or not, they do bind us. Culturally things are certainly more fragmented. As are the differences with Provincial laws. In that aspect, QC does function 'more' like a nation than other regions but not completely. If that were the case, QC would have already separated so unless it becomes a separate country it is still a part of the Canadian nation. We can debate about degrees of differences until the cows come home. Canada exists as a nation and there are national ties that binds, national values that have permeated through every layer of our collective lives and have helped shape who we are as individuals, regions and yes as a nation. I like about Canada that it allows such a condition to exists - it doesn't try to 'force' things on different people like other countries in similar profiles do. I say that in a modern day context, historically things get a lot darker and murkier.

You brought up the U.S. TBH I think there is more ideological division in that country than Canada.

I think the elements that tie Canada together would be missed in the event of separation. I think even you would miss them, even though you'd never admit it. To be honest, I don't even think you represent the majority in your Province. A/J and his views would be more representative.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-10-2019 at 10:53 AM..
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:00 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
It's would be almost impossible to deal with it, as Trudeau proudly has stated that Canada has no identity, and that it is a post national state.

In other words, Canada is not really a nation but just a government. Nations are characterized by some kind of distinct culture or identity. There was never a drive to create some sort of Canadian nation, the entire point of Canada was to be the opposite of that and remain a British colony.

Actual nations like Quebec, the U.S., and others are characterized in Canada as being racist, in your face nationalistic, aggressive, etc for having developed a culture and/or identity.

Nations just sort of happen. They aren't created because a government reigns over a particular territory. There has to be some sort of common identity, which doesn't exist in Canada. Look at English vs. French, just for starters.
I see what you are saying. People like Trudeau treat Canada more like a business operation more than a nation. A business that is open and for sale to everyone. Culture is not important. That is why the liberal push the multiculturalism thing so hard. You culture is my culture my culture. immigrants have a strong sense of identity (and religion) and put that before anything, while some liberal Canadians are more than willing to throw their own culture under the bus in the name of multiculturalism.

I guess that is why CAQ and Quebec in general is recieving such hard criticism from liberal supporting Canadians. It is really a matter of priorities and a distinct point of view. i personally am not a mutlicuturalist, i believe in integration I value Canadian culture and see it something worth being part of.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,662 posts, read 11,222,515 times
Reputation: 3792
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
. i personally am not a mutlicuturalist, i believe in integration I value Canadian culture and see it something worth being part of.
When has Canada as a nation, not been multiculturalist? Sure, it really went bananas in the 60's forward but since confederation the underpinnings of this nation has been about multiculturalism.

As far as integration is concerned, I really don't know how anyone coming into this country, refugee/immigrant, isn't really forced in one way or another to integrate into Canadian society. My wife is studying for her Canadian Citizenship test as we speak, that is the first part of being a Citizen is to drink the Canadian kool aid. Otherwise our laws, language and just society in general is by default part of the Canadian institution and experience for anyone. What are we supposed to ban people from speaking languages other than English/French in their homes and on the street? Ban Ukrainian festivals and force Canadian one's instead? Close down the Pacific Mall and tell people no to wearing Sari's? Btw not one person in my workplace has ever worn a Sari - always 'western' attire - integration...

By the way, we can find 'extremism' in any culture or religious group who wants to shove their religious views and ways down our collective throats. Some more concerning than others I admit but always in the minority.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:09 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,169 posts, read 6,376,266 times
Reputation: 12517
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Sorry, I may have missed something. Am I, as a western Canadian, supposed to care about Quebec?
Why doesn't Alberta think about separation? If it rattled some sabers maybe it would be asked to contribute less to the Ontario-Quebec party being thrown in Ottawa.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,662 posts, read 11,222,515 times
Reputation: 3792
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Why doesn't Alberta think about separation? If it rattled some sabers maybe it would be asked to contribute less to the Ontario-Quebec party being thrown in Ottawa.
If you are referring to the Liberal party in government now, the election of 2015 saw more than Ontario and Quebec voting in Trudeau. Maritimes ALL RED, B.C more seats red than any other party, Manitoba more seats red than any other party. Territories RED. Only Alberta and Sask were blue.

It was simply a RED sweep through most of the country. I don't see it being as strong this time around including in QC and Ontario.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:24 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,169 posts, read 6,376,266 times
Reputation: 12517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowhound View Post
Sorry but Quebec is just another province that is just like every other except they speak French. Not much of a difference. To be honest Quebec is lucky we gave them what they have and should spend less time whining and more time being grateful.
The notwithstanding clause has allowed Quebec ridiculous rights to discriminate against English-speakers.
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Old 08-10-2019, 03:42 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
When has Canada as a nation, not been multiculturalist? .
You can't be serious. There are many clear examples that this is not the case, at least not multiculturalism outside of European cultures.



Quote:
My wife is studying for her Canadian Citizenship test as we speak, that is the first part of being a Citizen is to drink the Canadian kool aid.
i thought you had a Venezuelan husband??




Quote:
Otherwise our laws, language and just society in general is by default part of the Canadian institution and experience for anyone. What are we supposed to ban people from speaking languages other than English/French in their homes and on the street? Ban Ukrainian festivals and force Canadian one's instead? Close down the Pacific Mall and.
No I don't believe in banning anything, but I do understand where CAQ and their supporters are coming from. I don't see anything wrong with having certain expectation put on people and a continuation of things as they are.

Quote:
tell people no to wearing Sari's? Btw not one person in my workplace has ever worn a Sari - always 'western' attire - integration..
I'm sorry, I am not familiar with the term"sari". What is that some sort of turban or head covering? And what is your point exactly. Anecdotal remarks are meaningless.


Quote:
By the way, we can find 'extremism' in any culture or religious group who wants to shove their religious views and ways down our collective throats. Some more concerning than others I admit but always in the minority
.

That is a given, why are you even bringing that up??
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,662 posts, read 11,222,515 times
Reputation: 3792
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
You can't be serious. There are many clear examples that this is not the case, at least not multiculturalism outside of European cultures.
You can't be serious lol...……...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Canadians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Canadians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Canadians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaican_Canadians

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post

i thought you had a Venezuelan husband??
Yes from 2010 to the end of 2016 I had a Venezuelan Husband and than she started transitioning in 2017. Hormones, most surgeries to the point she visually has the shape of a female and boobs. Her I.D is now F - for female. She is my wife. She is my life partner and I love her dearly. Things happen in life outside our control and ideally my husband would have remained my husband, but I do not own or control her and this is who she is and I love and accept the beautiful soul in my life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
I'm sorry, I am not familiar with the term"sari". What is that some sort of turban or head covering? And what is your point exactly. Anecdotal remarks are meaningless.
First about banning. I think everything I said you about 'banning' is valid in the context of what you said. Here is why - You say you are not in favour of multiculturalism, but I think I clearly demonstrated that in our country, there is a certain level of integration already required of refs/immigrants within our multicultural society. Beyond that there isn't much more we can do to prevent people from celebrating their own culture and/or identifying themselves not only as Canadian, but also the mother country. Aside from banning immigration than what, as someone advocating against multiculturalism what would you do? What measures would you take within the framework of our multicultural society to enforce and back up what you say. You say things and those things can have huge implications but you don't elaborate on how far you would go to implement the meat of what you say and what you believe in. How would you enforce no multiculturalism - Ban immigrants like what is your solution to back up the things you say Luis.

A Sari
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sari

Last edited by fusion2; 08-10-2019 at 04:29 PM..
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:40 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
You do realize the bulk of those people have moved here since the 60s?

If multiculturalism has always been part of Canada, why put natives on reserves? Why try to force them to become agriculturalist? Why force their kids to become more westernized and force them into residential schools?

Even some Europeans were not completely welcomed here. In places like Nova Scotia it was frowned upon to speak Gaelic, and Children that did so had their mouths washed out with soap.

Chinese and Blacks were definitely not always welcome either.

Quote:
Has Canada ever implemented or attempted to implement an immigration ban similar to US President Donald Trump’s recent executive order prohibiting the entry of individuals from seven predominantly Muslim countries? The answer, unfortunately, is “yes.” In 1911, steps were actually taken to have Canada acquire the first racial exclusion order in the Western Hemisphere.
Canada
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:52 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post



First about banning. I think everything I said you about 'banning' is valid in the context of what you said. Here is why - You say you are not in favour of multiculturalism, but I think I clearly demonstrated that in our country, there is a certain level of integration already required of refs/immigrants within our multicultural society. Beyond that there isn't much more we can do to prevent people from celebrating their own culture and/or identifying themselves not only as Canadian, but also the mother country. Aside from banning immigration than what, as someone advocating against multiculturalism what would you do? What measures would you take within the framework of our multicultural society to enforce and back up what you say. You say things and those things can have huge implications but you don't elaborate on how far you would go to implement the meat of what you say and what you believe in. How would you enforce no multiculturalism - Ban immigrants like what is your solution to back up the things you say Luis.
Ummm No I don't suggest banning anyone, lol Do you know what integration means? If I wanted to ban people I wouldn't be for integration. Multiculutralism actually benefits racists (both locals and immigrants) and people that put religion before their nation.
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