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Old 08-10-2019, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,662 posts, read 11,222,515 times
Reputation: 3792

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
You do realize the bulk of those people have moved here since the 60s?

If multiculturalism has always been part of Canada, why put natives on reserves? Why try to force them to become agriculturalist? Why force their kids to become more westernized and force them into residential schools?

Even some Europeans were not completely welcomed here. In places like Nova Scotia it was frowned upon to speak Gaelic, and Children that did so had their mouths washed out with soap.

Chinese and Blacks were definitely not always welcome either.



Canada
Of course I realize the bulk of them arrived in the 60's and beyond. That doesn't negate what I said about the fact they were here. I agree with you that disgusting attempts were made to force assimilation of many groups - and believe me i'm not glossing over it. It was horrible so yes, multiculturalism was different and much more closeted and certainly we were not a nation that outwardly identified as multicultural like we have since mid 20th century. That said, by virtue of the fact they were here we did in fact have a multicultural society.

You didn't answer my other question which I think is more important as it is in the here and now.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:53 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
I did answer it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post



First about banning. I think everything I said you about 'banning' is valid in the context of what you said. Here is why - You say you are not in favour of multiculturalism, but I think I clearly demonstrated that in our country, there is a certain level of integration already required of refs/immigrants within our multicultural society. Beyond that there isn't much more we can do to prevent people from celebrating their own culture and/or identifying themselves not only as Canadian, but also the mother country. Aside from banning immigration than what, as someone advocating against multiculturalism what would you do? What measures would you take within the framework of our multicultural society to enforce and back up what you say. You say things and those things can have huge implications but you don't elaborate on how far you would go to implement the meat of what you say and what you believe in. How would you enforce no multiculturalism - Ban immigrants like what is your solution to back up the things you say Luis.
Ummm No I don't suggest banning anyone, lol Do you know what integration means? If I wanted to ban people I wouldn't be for integration. Multiculutralism actually benefits racists (both locals and immigrants) and people that put religion before their nation.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:58 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
That said, by virtue of the fact they were here we did in fact have a multicultural society.

.
Yes but it wasn't a policy or promoted like it is now.
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Old 08-10-2019, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,662 posts, read 11,222,515 times
Reputation: 3792
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
I did answer it.



Ummm No I don't suggest banning anyone, lol Do you know what integration means? If I wanted to ban people I wouldn't be for integration. Multiculutralism actually benefits racists (both locals and immigrants) and people that put religion before their nation.
I didn't see it because you posted it after your first and I just quoted your first with my own response. Does anyone truly know what integration means in this context Luis? But in any sense this is good - my intention is to draw out from you what it is you mean, so that I know what you stand for on this matter as a whole because it isn't clear to me.

So if you aren't into a ban on immigrants what would you do to manage immigration in the context of integration beyond what Canada currently does? These are people with a variety of cultural, religious and differing identities so what further measures would you take towards assimilating them and thus preventing multiculturalism. Currently, according to you not enough is being done so if we don't ban em than and they come in, than some pretty potent assimilation processes would need to take place.

I mean, it's easy just to blame multiculturalism on the Liberals...…...

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Yes but it wasn't a policy or promoted like it is now.
No ofc on this we completely agree.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-10-2019 at 05:32 PM..
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:56 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
So if you aren't into a ban on immigrants what would you do to manage immigration in the context of integration beyond what Canada currently does? .
Jesus christ why do you keep bringing that up? Stop talking about bans. i never even mentioned anything remotely like that.

Here are a few ways we can integrate people better.

1. Do a better job at spreading out where new comers live, it is not a good idea to ghettoize our cities. Lets actually integrate people. Lets place more in rural areas and small towns. One of the best and quickest ways to learn English is to be in an area where you can't speak your old language. If you want to preserve your language and pass it on to your kids do so at home.

2. Put a greater emphasis on the secular nature of our society and government. Ban all religious symbols in government buildings and schools.

3. Put a greater emphasis on teaching who built this country and its institutions and why we have the country we have today. Sure it was a country built on immigration, but immigration from a very slim group of countries.

4. Put more of an emphasis on being bilingual, learning both official languages.

5. Stop wealthy immigrants from hurting the local middle class (including working class immigrants) with their money to the point they can not buy homes in their own cities.

6. Make sure politicians have no ties or sympathies to religious or ethnic organizations that promote causes over seas. (independence movements, civil and religious conflicts etc etc)

7. Get rid of mutliculturalism as a policy.

8. Get people to eat a strip of Canadian bacon and drink a glass of wine

9. wear deodorant

10. Bathe in maple syrup

11. hunt cariboo and bears

12. play hockey

13. chop down a tree with an axe.

14. smoke pot

15. watch porn

16. Don't participate in the city-data canadian forum....

Last edited by UrbanLuis; 08-10-2019 at 09:13 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 03:28 AM
 
34,584 posts, read 41,760,593 times
Reputation: 30049
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post


2. Put a greater emphasis on the secular nature of our society and government. Ban all religious symbols in government buildings and schools.


...
Whats your view in bill21 and why is it necessary? also whats your take on bill 9 a nd the trashing of 18000 visa applications already in progress
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Old Yesterday, 08:23 AM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Whats your view in bill21 and why is it necessary? also whats your take on bill 9 a nd the trashing of 18000 visa applications already in progress
I feel that the Nation of Quebec has the right to implement what ever bills they see fit. It is a democracy afterall.
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Old Yesterday, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,662 posts, read 11,222,515 times
Reputation: 3792
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Jesus christ why do you keep bringing that up? Stop talking about bans. i never even mentioned anything remotely like that.

Here are a few ways we can integrate people better.

1. Do a better job at spreading out where new comers live, it is not a good idea to ghettoize our cities. Lets actually integrate people. Lets place more in rural areas and small towns. One of the best and quickest ways to learn English is to be in an area where you can't speak your old language. If you want to preserve your language and pass it on to your kids do so at home.

2. Put a greater emphasis on the secular nature of our society and government. Ban all religious symbols in government buildings and schools.

3. Put a greater emphasis on teaching who built this country and its institutions and why we have the country we have today. Sure it was a country built on immigration, but immigration from a very slim group of countries.

4. Put more of an emphasis on being bilingual, learning both official languages.

5. Stop wealthy immigrants from hurting the local middle class (including working class immigrants) with their money to the point they can not buy homes in their own cities.

6. Make sure politicians have no ties or sympathies to religious or ethnic organizations that promote causes over seas. (independence movements, civil and religious conflicts etc etc)

7. Get rid of mutliculturalism as a policy.

8. Get people to eat a strip of Canadian bacon and drink a glass of wine

9. wear deodorant

10. Bathe in maple syrup

11. hunt cariboo and bears

12. play hockey

13. chop down a tree with an axe.

14. smoke pot

15. watch porn

16. Don't participate in the city-data canadian forum....
You get frustrated very easily lol. I kept asking because you say you are against something, but didn't really get into why and also what you would do about it. Thanks for elaborating, but part of your integration policy would infringe on any Canadian Citizens' and probably even PR's rights. That is the tricky part about integration policies, how far are we willing to go to ensure one is being 'Canadian' enough. Not just when they come in but over time. Will we start implementing Canadian Culture and Identity adherence Policing in the country for example. It is like in the workplace, a Company can implement a set of rules/policies, but if they don't ensure compliance they can quickly become irrelevant talking points instead of real change in corporate culture.

Speaking of Citizenship, beyond abiding by our laws and fulfilling their 'duties' as a Canadian citizen, this is all the oath of Citizenship gets into.

Quote:
“I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada, and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.”
There is more about the Queen and her heirs/successors than about what you will do and what is expected of you as a Canadian Citizen. The Citizenship test does get into more about Canadian history.

I just leafed through Canada's multiculturalism policy. Some of that policy actually encourages integration believe it or not. In addition there are aspects of the policy that are beneficial to First Nations groups. Honestly, the policy doesn't really get into the brass tacks of things. I could be wrong and if someone more learned could interject I welcome the info, but honest, Canada's Multiculturalism Policy sounds nicer than what it is probably actually doing in practice.

By the way, you said you weren't in favour of banning anything, but you would ban all religious symbols in government buildings and schools.

Honestly UL, I knew in order for you be against multiculturalism, you would have to get into banning things or implementing some pretty contentious integration policies that would not only be legally challenging, but also difficult and labour intensive to ensure adherence.

Last edited by fusion2; Yesterday at 09:28 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,662 posts, read 11,222,515 times
Reputation: 3792
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Whats your view in bill21 and why is it necessary? also whats your take on bill 9 a nd the trashing of 18000 visa applications already in progress
Whatever happened to Freedom of Religion that is supposed to be guaranteed in the Canadian Charter of Rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
I feel that the Nation of Quebec has the right to implement what ever bills they see fit. It is a democracy afterall.
The nation of QC may not be fully on board with this, especially in terms of the decision to suppress debate on the bill.

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magaz...anding-clause/

Last edited by fusion2; Yesterday at 09:40 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,901 posts, read 4,491,137 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Honestly UL, I knew in order for you be against multiculturalism, you would have to get into banning things or implementing some pretty contentious integration policies that would not only be legally challenging, but also difficult and labour intensive to ensure adherence.
Yeah but not people. You kept saying banning immigrants. That it not what I was getting at. Stop focusing on the one thing and ignoring the rest of what I said. Huge difference between a symbol than banning people but of course you are trying to make out to be something its not.


You talk about the Oath. How long does it take to make the oath? Regardless of what is said, it is really a symbolic gesture. Surely there are more concrete steps that can be taken.
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