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Old Yesterday, 06:59 AM
 
18,398 posts, read 10,461,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Oh, and I also see Alberta separatism as a bit of a joke. This is not out of disrespect for Albertans but rather comes from my knowledge of geopolitics. Separatist movements based almost solely on monetary factors never go anywhere. It's also not an "it's only good for Quebec, not for the rest of you guys" thing for me. I'd take a Newfoundland separatist movement a lot more seriously, if one were to get well organized.
As I pointed out in my above post, it wasn't the unlikely prospect of Alberta's separation I was primarily concerned about but a ramping up of anti-Quebec sentiment resulting in the ROC taking steps to retain Alberta at the ultimate expense of Quebec's political influence/leverage, leading to a crisis point.
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Old Yesterday, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,027 posts, read 27,508,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post

Kenny's anti-Quebec rhetoric, wrapped in a thin disguise of Trudeau repudiation, like it or not, is going to strike a chord with a lot of Canadians. I worry about that escalating exponentially to a degree unforeseen in our recent history. Controlling that will be open to all sorts of confusion by Federal and Quebec pol's.
Canada's always fairly close to the edge of the precipice when it comes to this stuff. Even when most Canadians are very confident that it isn't.
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Old Yesterday, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,027 posts, read 27,508,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
As I pointed out in my above post, it wasn't the unlikely prospect of Alberta's separation I was primarily concerned about but a ramping up of anti-Quebec sentiment resulting in the ROC taking steps to retain Alberta at the ultimate expense of Quebec's political influence/leverage, leading to a crisis point.
OK, then I'd say that regardless of what Vern and the boys at the Dominion Tavern think, Canada's non-Quebec élites (largely concentrated in Toronto and Ottawa) would almost certainly pick Quebec over Alberta in such a scenario.


Not that they wouldn't want to keep Alberta. Obviously they would. But as I said in my reference to geopoitics... Alberta's chances of leaving (in spite of all the huffing and puffing) are far lower than the odds of Quebec separating (even if things are quiet at the moment here).


So throwing Alberta a very small bone while keeping Quebec happy too, in some other way, is probably a winning strategy to keep the whole house intact.
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Old Yesterday, 07:10 AM
 
18,398 posts, read 10,461,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Canada's always fairly close to the edge of the precipice when it comes to this stuff. Even when most Canadians are very confident that it isn't.
I don't agree with your assessment of "most". How could "most" Canadians be "confidant" when every decade or so we are faced with yet another tantrum from Quebec with the only solution offered being to take all it's marbles and go off to sulk.

How many times has this spectre reared it's head in your lifetime? I'm old enough to have very vivid memories of it culminating in the October Crisis with a few post scripts added since.

I would submit to you that "confidence" is not the emotion at play whereupon Canadians refuse to actively engage or discuss Quebec but rather a general "for chrissake, tiptoe through the house without making a sound and let that sleeping dog lie".
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Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM
 
18,398 posts, read 10,461,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
OK, then I'd say that regardless of what Vern and the boys at the Dominion Tavern think, Canada's non-Quebec élites (largely concentrated in Toronto and Ottawa) would almost certainly pick Quebec over Alberta in such a scenario.


Not that they wouldn't want to keep Alberta. Obviously they would. But as I said in my reference to geopoitics... Alberta's chances of leaving (in spite of all the huffing and puffing) are far lower than the odds of Quebec separating (even if things are quiet at the moment here).


So throwing Alberta a very small bone while keeping Quebec happy too, in some other way, is probably a winning strategy to keep the whole house intact.
Your point is well taken about past behaviour but during the run up to any Federal election all bets are off when it comes to Canadians across the country being allowed to express themselves in a way that over-rides Vern and his henchmen at the B/S table of Local 333 of the Order of the Moose hall AND the power brokers routine manipulating things from Bay Street.

It is not a "small bone" Alberta is requiring now, but a rather large side of beef to compensate for that lost decade of wealth they've (along with the ROC) been outright politically denied.

Many Canadians see Alberta's treatment as merely the most indicative spotlight being shone on their own conundrum.

A collision if you will, of the feelings within ALL Provinces at this time, including Quebec, with the bulk of those radiating towards Quebec rather than emanating from it.
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Old Yesterday, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,027 posts, read 27,508,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I don't agree with your assessment of "most". How could "most" Canadians be "confidant" when every decade or so we are faced with yet another tantrum from Quebec with the only solution offered being to take all it's marbles and go off to sulk.

How many times has this spectre reared it's head in your lifetime? I'm old enough to have very vivid memories of it culminating in the October Crisis with a few post scripts added since.

I would submit to you that "confidence" is not the emotion at play whereupon Canadians refuse to actively engage or discuss Quebec but rather a general "for chrissake, tiptoe through the house without making a sound and let that sleeping dog lie".
Living where I do I occasionally rub shoulders with Canada's power brokers and would definitely describe the prevailing attitude about Quebec separatism as being "confident" that it won't be regaining any type of dangerous force any time soon.


Are they wrong in this assumption? Perhaps.


Back in the 1990-1995 era I was a lot closer to the belly of the beast and yes the power brokers did seriously misjudge the seriousness of the threat, up until the very last minute in fact.
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Old Yesterday, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Québec
41 posts, read 7,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
You're on the right track. Acajack is saying that anglo Canada's "culture" is mostly based on being "Not American". (Acajack please tell me if not)

That means having a monarchy is something they will hold on to in name only. That way they can have a vestige of their own culture, instead of copying the U.S. like most other things.
I get it that makes a lot of sense!
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Old Yesterday, 08:10 AM
 
18,398 posts, read 10,461,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post

Are they wrong in this assumption? Perhaps.
I'm surmising that if all things remain the same, they might not be wrong but, as we're now seeing, things are far from simply remaining the same.

Your previous remark regarding Newfoundland struck a chord with me as given the way that province received little to no consideration within Confederation, my refrain was always one of why does Quebec think it's got a case for objection when Newfoundland has been virtually starved it's entire history within the club.

This is going to be an interesting election cycle for sure with Scheer losing more shine each day he meanders all over the map of the typical 'gimmy' strategy. Trudeau does not seem to have a pre-emptive gene in his entire body.

Interesting times indeed.
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Old Yesterday, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,027 posts, read 27,508,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post

Your previous remark regarding Newfoundland struck a chord with me as given the way that province received little to no consideration within Confederation, my refrain was always one of why does Quebec think it's got a case for objection when Newfoundland has been virtually starved it's entire history within the club.
.

This is a point that can be argued but as you no doubt know realpolitik doesn't always follow that type of logic.


Quebec does what it does because it can. It has nothing to do with whether or not Newfoundland got more of a raw deal.


As they say, politics is the art of the possible.


Others also say: it's not bragging if you can do it.
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Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Québec
41 posts, read 7,795 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I don't agree with your assessment of "most". How could "most" Canadians be "confidant" when every decade or so we are faced with yet another tantrum from Quebec with the only solution offered being to take all it's marbles and go off to sulk.

How many times has this spectre reared it's head in your lifetime? I'm old enough to have very vivid memories of it culminating in the October Crisis with a few post scripts added since.

I would submit to you that "confidence" is not the emotion at play whereupon Canadians refuse to actively engage or discuss Quebec but rather a general "for chrissake, tiptoe through the house without making a sound and let that sleeping dog lie".
Well whenever we talk about it everyone gets emotional and hostile. Look at this thread. Because anyone who doesn't love Canada exactly as it is, that must mean we are 'malcontents' or 'sniveling'.

You would think that people who spend so much time telling everyone about how open and moral that they are should be able to make this work better.
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