U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Should Canada keep the British monarchy
Yes, Canada should keep the monarchy 17 41.46%
No, Canada does not need a monarch 24 58.54%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-10-2019, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,813 posts, read 9,920,378 times
Reputation: 9941

Advertisements

[humor flag on] Subjects arguing about keeping or leaving a monarch remind me of mice arguing over belling a cat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-10-2019, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,813 posts, read 9,920,378 times
Reputation: 9941
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I love my country the U.S., but one of the worst things we did was to not keep the monarchy. Exhibit "A" was Watergate; it took from Janaury 1973,when it became obvious that Nixon was non-functioning to August 1974 to do what it took Governor-General Sir John Kerr a small part of an afternoon to can Gough Whitlam as Prime Minister, installing Malcolm Frasier as caretaker PM until elections could be held a little more than a month latter. See 4. The crisis of 1974-75 – Parliament of Australia and The Dismissal of the Whitlam Government – November 11th, 1975. Ironically, this occurred as the Edmund Fitzgerald famously sank, see The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald November 10, 1975.

I'm quite sure that the Watergate turmoil had greater resemblences to a shipwreck than the more contemporaneous turfing of the Australian PM. The point being is the Queen Elizabeth would not have tolerated 18 months of nonsense on her royal watch. I prefer constitutional monarchy.
Apparently, the poster is unaware of the distinction between the republican form of government (where people are sovereigns) and the subjugation of the people under a monarchy.
". . . at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the [American] people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects, and have none to govern but themselves. . ."
- - - Justice John Jay, Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. 2 Dall. 419 419 (1793)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...CR_0002_0419_Z

Pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, all men have Creator endowed rights that [American] governments are instituted to secure - not rule. Anything beyond that requires consent of the governed.

Americans are the social equals of all other monarchs on this planet. That's why Americans don't bow nor kneel to them... or shouldn't.

Of course those who consent to be governed ("citizens") surrender their endowment and become subjects of their sovereign government, reversing roles.
"... the term 'citizen,' in the United States, is analogous to the term "SUBJECT" in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. ... he who before was a "subject of the King" is now a citizen of the State."
- - - State v. Manuel, 20 N.C. 144 (1838)

SUBJECT - One that owes allegiance to a sovereign and is governed by his laws.
...Men in free governments are subjects as well as citizens; as citizens they enjoy rights and franchises; as subjects they are bound to obey the laws. The term is little used, in this sense, in countries enjoying a republican form of government.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1425
(Note: there is only one country with a "republican form" of government. Its sovereign people owe no allegiance to a sovereign.)

Canadians are subjects of a monarch, and cannot choose whether or not to be subjects. It's up to the monarch to surrender dominion.

As to the confusion over America's government, again, the servant has little to do with the master (sovereign people) other than secure rights (adjudicate disputes, prosecute criminals, defend against all enemies, foreign or domestic). All other aspects come under "consent" and he who consents cannot object. Shut up, sit down, pay and obey.

In America, the government is not the sovereign, but the agent for the sovereign people... (which does not include the subject citizenry who are governed by it).
“... In Europe, the sovereignty is generally ascribed to the Prince; here, it rests with the people; there, the sovereign actually administers the government; here, never in a single instance; our Governors are the agents of the [sovereign] people, and, at most, stand in the same relation to their sovereign in which regents in Europe stand to their sovereigns.”
- - - Justice John Jay, Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. 2 Dall. 419 419 (1793)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...CR_0002_0419_Z

That millions of Americans don't know about their form of government is a triumph of the world's greatest propaganda ministry. Kudos to the People's Democratic Socialist Republic of America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2019, 07:01 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,459 posts, read 6,695,060 times
Reputation: 14709
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Apparently, the poster is unaware of the distinction between the republican form of government (where people are sovereigns) and the subjugation of the people under a monarch...... Canadians are subjects of a monarch, and cannot choose whether or not to be subjects. It's up to the monarch to surrender dominion.

I guess you weren't aware of this, but the monarch (QE II) of all 16 of the British commonwealth monarchies no longer has any subjects of the monarch in any of those countries (not even in the UK).

Subject status was progressively abolished nation by nation starting in the early mid-20th century and completed by 1987 (Australia being the last). All of those countries are independent sovereign nations and all former subjects are now sovereign citizens. Subject status in Canada was abolished 42 years ago, in 1977.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject
.

Last edited by Zoisite; 08-10-2019 at 07:36 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2019, 07:31 PM
 
Location: San Francisco/East Bay and Los Angeles, formerly DC and Boston
2,159 posts, read 3,452,912 times
Reputation: 1875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Considering the White House is in it's most dysfunctional state in our time, I'd reconsider pointing fingers.
He gets voted out or term limited. The Queen and her inbred children have jobs for life.

And she does nothing to stop Rob Ford or other dysfunctional disasters from taking office in Canada.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2019, 07:48 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,459 posts, read 6,695,060 times
Reputation: 14709
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11 View Post
He gets voted out or term limited. The Queen and her inbred children have jobs for life.

And she does nothing to stop Rob Ford or other dysfunctional disasters from taking office in Canada.

That's silly reasoning. Being an omnipotent babysitter or nanny is not the monarch's job. Get real.

Stopping dysfunctional disasters from taking office in either Canada or USA is the job of the voting citizens.

Getting those same disasters out of office is done the same way, by the voting citizens voting them out of office, or term limited.

.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2019, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Québec
44 posts, read 27,824 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I guess you weren't aware of this, but the monarch (QE II) of all 16 of the British commonwealth monarchies no longer has any subjects of the monarch in any of those countries (not even in the UK).

Subject status was progressively abolished nation by nation starting in the early mid-20th century and completed by 1987 (Australia being the last). All of those countries are independent sovereign nations and all former subjects are now sovereign citizens. Subject status in Canada was abolished 42 years ago, in 1977.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject
.
Lol wow
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,582 posts, read 7,531,204 times
Reputation: 11018
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I'll take the Queen and those inbreds over Donald J Trump every day of the year for the eternity of our universe, from the beginning of time to the end, or even in a reality where time has no beginning and no end.
Huge difference....we all get a say on whether President Trump gets to stay for another term in a year and a few months. No one gets a say on the Royal Family in Canada, the U.K. etc.

Having said that the monarchy is part of Canadian history and culture. If I were Canadian I would support keeping it. Several posters said if it is not broke don’t fix it...I agree with that. It’s funny that even here in the US people obsess over the royals, we never truly got rid of them. It was in name only.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2019, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,589 posts, read 3,151,316 times
Reputation: 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailfo2 View Post
Is it time to move away from having the British monarch as Canada's head of state?

Some would argue that it is a colonial symbol of inequality and racism.

Others say you must stay loyal to the British monarch.

Should people have government positions thanks to their lineage?

the day you give up the monarchy is the day you join the united states
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2019, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,813 posts, read 9,920,378 times
Reputation: 9941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
all former subjects are now sovereign citizens.
LOL - there is no such thing as a sovereign citizen. It is an oxymoron.
If a "free citizen" can be compelled to do mandatory civic duties, he's a subject, whether of a monarch, an oligarchy, a police state, or whatever. Ditto, if he needs a license (permission) or pay taxes to work, travel, buy, sell, hire, operate a business, marry and or own a dog.

A sovereign is not a citizen.

SOVEREIGN - A person, body or state in which independent and supreme authority is vested...
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1395.

P.S. - in the movie, "Fly Away Home," the Canadian game warden told the children that the geese were the QUEEN'S GEESE. I guess some people still claim authority and ownership over Canada and its chattels.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2019, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,670 posts, read 11,232,768 times
Reputation: 3807
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Huge difference....we all get a say on whether President Trump gets to stay for another term in a year and a few months. No one gets a say on the Royal Family in Canada, the U.K. etc.

Having said that the monarchy is part of Canadian history and culture. If I were Canadian I would support keeping it. Several posters said if it is not broke don’t fix it...I agree with that. It’s funny that even here in the US people obsess over the royals, we never truly got rid of them. It was in name only.
Will you have a say Daniel, with him you don't reallllly know.. Just a friendly jab there but if any U.S Pres has put that notion to the test it is him.

I'm not going to lose sleep over the Queen as H.O.S. She's earned it and is probably the most experienced H.O.S in the world. I just feel the time has come for Canada to fully function on its own accord in a post monarch H.O.S world. To maintain the history and political structure of the Westminster system, which i'm fine with and does work for us by and large, we could continue on with the same political structure, just that the GG would be the H.O.S outright with no linkage to a foreign sovereign. Swearing an oath at a Citizenship ceremony for example, would only be to Canada not to the Queen and her heirs and successors. It sends a powerful message that your allegiance is to Canada and not some foreign sovereign. The good part of this as well is from a cultural perspective, we would end it with the reign of probably one of the most impressive individuals to ever be our H.O.S. I'd even be in favour of leaving her on the 20 dollar bill to recognize her singular contribution.

I'm glad you mentioned U.S obsession with the royals. I think you're absolutely right and the level of media attention they get on a visit to the U.S is pretty much aligned with here. Most Americans in here wouldn't admit that connection but i'm glad you did!

Last edited by fusion2; 08-11-2019 at 08:24 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top