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Old 09-01-2019, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,248 posts, read 27,720,986 times
Reputation: 8713

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
My observation is that people from Quebec “do not speak proper French”.

But I suspect the geo-political bias will overrun the ability to speak proper French!!

.
Do you speak French sufficiently well to speak to this with some degree of authority?
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Rivière-du-Loup
36 posts, read 8,007 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
My observation is that people from Quebec “do not speak proper French”.

But I suspect the geo-political bias will overrun the ability to speak proper French!!

I don’t speak “proper” Russian, nor do I speak “proper” Ukranian. It has been held against me.

I do speak English pretty well, but then again, my writing is suspect since English is my fourth language.

In the end.....the nations personal interests in the outcome will determine IF Quebec becomes an independent state.

I support it.....We need to get government to support the people at the level they govern. Canada will be better off with a independent Quebec....and so will the world.
Quebec speaks and writes the same French as everyone else.
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,868 posts, read 11,324,651 times
Reputation: 3903
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
Hello fusion2, would you consider the Canada/America relationship a "parasitic relationship"?

You live off them more than we live off of you, any day of the week.

I would make the argument that your parasitic relationship with the U.S. is not good for you or the U.S.




I'm not sure where Acajack is challenging me.

I have been terribly busy lately; the result is that I still need to review some of the threads.

That being said, I could care less if Acajack is considered "a good one". I have no desire to seek anyone's approval.



The time may never come, that ball is in your court.

In my opinion, if I may:

The time will come when Canada no longer offers us anything more of value.

Whether of not Quebec is doing well economically is a misunderstanding the situation before us.

Don't worry, fusion2, I'm a generous man, and will offer you this first lesson for free.

If you have a ripened watermelon in front of you, do you let it go to waste?

No, you enjoy every bite of it.

Only afterwards do you move on.

When Canada is nothing more than the rind of a watermelon, that is when we move on.

When Canada has nothing left to offer us, that is when we move on.





- Devolution of Canadian government giving Quebec power over it's own fate
- Dissolution of monarchy, or ability for Quebec to disregard monarchy, like taking the Queen off the money
- powers to give complete protection to French language in Quebec and New Brunswick
- Quebec has own seat at UN and own Olympics team seperate from Canada
- 50/50 split between Quebec and Canada in dplomatic affairs
- more autonomy for French language units in the military
- ability for Quebec to skip military ventures like Afghanistan

These would be adequate requirements to not only preserve Canada but move us into the 21st century of the Canadian union.

If it makes more sense for Quebec to achieve these through independence, that could be.

However, the current role of the CAQ is moving in the right direction. They are allowing us to reap the benefits that Canada willingly offers us, whilst simultaneously increasing our rightful autonomy.
The U.S Canada analogy is completely ridiculous! Canada is not part of the U.S. What Canada 'benefits' from the U.S is via trade and mutually beneficial defense treaties that both agreed to. A trade relationship by the way that is fairly even - certainly not 'parasitic' - otherwise Canada would export a lot more to the U.S than vice versa - not the case. Last I looked, Canada and the U.S has a balanced trading relationship - that is not mooching.

That being said, if Canada portrayed itself in the same manner you are for QC- as this sort of 'parasitic' relationship, than I would totally understand a backlash. I don't know if you are being honest or not, but how you represent your Province and her people to the rest of the country is just horrible. I don't think any group, be it English Canadian, American, Dutch you name it, would want to be equated as a 'watermelon' willingly wanting to be devoured. What this country should be about, are a collection of peoples wanting to make it better for the common good of the country as a whole, not 'just' one part. If the majority of Quebecers are 'only' it this for their 'own' nation, at the expense of the greater nation as a whole, than it time to move on. It is like any relationship, it takes two parties. If one isn't willingly going to contribute than really, It is truly time for a divorce.

Truth is though PB - i'm not convinced the majority of the Province feels the same way you do.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ence-1.3788110

Quote:
A total of 31 per cent of Quebecers questioned said they were "very proud" to be Canadian and 31 per cent said they were "proud."
."
Awww poor PB - 62 percent of Quebecers are either proud or very proud to be 'Canadian' - Of the 38 percent who are not, most are probably firmly separatist and have that independent goal for QC. To those they have my respect as they aren't waffling on the issue. They are simply a minority group wanting a different path that the majority is preventing. So I still think you are in such a small, unique minority. Sorry bud, but your views appear, from an outsiders p.o.v as an outlier among your own people it would seem.

Last edited by fusion2; 09-03-2019 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
16,795 posts, read 27,044,634 times
Reputation: 26949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebec Is My Country View Post
Quebec speaks and writes the same French as everyone else.

https://www.google.com/search?q=queb...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,248 posts, read 27,720,986 times
Reputation: 8713
Some of us on here are native French speakers and therefore very attuned to the differences.

The written language is 99.9% identical.

La Presse in Montréal is linguistically closer to Le Monde in Paris than the Times of London is to the New York Times.

In terms of speech the differences are similar to Texas vs. the UK.
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 AM
 
18,543 posts, read 10,559,495 times
Reputation: 13584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebec Is My Country View Post
Quebec speaks and writes the same French as everyone else.
Uh, now you've got me thinking about your cred's as an actual, honest to gawd, Quebecker.

No Quebecer I've known over many years would ever make such a claim. The Canadien contractions used are foreign to every other French speaking nation as I'm sure, some of them are foreign in themselves to the actual national origin of the French language.

The accepted in Canada shortenings or contractions used, even in written form, would indicate to anyone else on the planet familiar with those normal everyday contractions, the writer of any "informal" document originates in Canada.

An example of this: https://www.talkinfrench.com/canadia...ch-difference/:

"There are several grammatical features that exist in spoken Québec French that make it distinct from Metropolitan French. For example, the syntax of informally spoken Québec French makes much lesser use of specifiers such as relative clauses wherein “que” is used as a relative pronoun in many cases. For example, a Quebecker might say “J’ai trouvé le document que j’ai de besoin,” whereas a Metropolitan French speaker would form the sentence as “J’ai trouvé le document dont j’ai besoin.”

Some specifiers, like prepositions, collocate with certain verbs are taken out altogether. An example would be a Quebecker will say “J’ai un enfant à m’occuper,” but a Metropolitan French speaker will say this as “J’ai un enfant dont je dois m’occuper.” This Québec French way of forming sentences often results in major syntactic differences between the two French varieties.

Another good example of grammatical difference between Metropolitan and Québec French is the subject and object pronouns are, most of the time, not the same. In spoken Québec French “on” is used almost all of the time instead of “nous.” Some prepositions are also shortened in Québec French. Examples are a Quebecker will say s’a instead of sur la, dins instead of dans les, ands’es instead of surles. These are just a few of a large number of grammatical distinctions between the two varieties of French-and there are even grammatical structures that exist only in Québec French."


C'mon now, you should know this.

Finally; why would anyone think this is a "negative" thing? It's just another part of that "distinctive culture". ….. er, isn't it?

Last edited by BruSan; Yesterday at 09:10 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Montreal > Quebec > Canada
490 posts, read 438,339 times
Reputation: 283
It's still "proper" French.
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Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Québec
69 posts, read 16,697 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Awww poor PB - 62 percent of Quebecers are either proud or very proud to be 'Canadian' - Of the 38 percent who are not, most are probably firmly separatist and have that independent goal for QC. To those they have my respect as they aren't waffling on the issue. They are simply a minority group wanting a different path that the majority is preventing. So I still think you are in such a small, unique minority. Sorry bud, but your views appear, from an outsiders p.o.v as an outlier among your own people it would seem.
An important fact is that when you say Canadien in French vs. English it can mean different two things. So it doesn't tell us much. I am proud to be Canadian but it is a different concept than someone in Nova Scotia would remain. I am proud to be Canadian if it means the Canada began by the French but so many people deny this is even Canada anymore. That I can't get onboard if it means the new Canada with no identity or culture, that's not my Canada..
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Old Yesterday, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Québec
69 posts, read 16,697 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Uh, now you've got me thinking about your cred's as an actual, honest to gawd, Quebecker.

No Quebecer I've known over many years would ever make such a claim. The Canadien contractions used are foreign to every other French speaking nation as I'm sure, some of them are foreign in themselves to the actual national origin of the French language.

The accepted in Canada shortenings or contractions used, even in written form, would indicate to anyone else on the planet familiar with those normal everyday contractions, the writer of any "informal" document originates in Canada.

An example of this: https://www.talkinfrench.com/canadia...ch-difference/:

"There are several grammatical features that exist in spoken Québec French that make it distinct from Metropolitan French. For example, the syntax of informally spoken Québec French makes much lesser use of specifiers such as relative clauses wherein “que” is used as a relative pronoun in many cases. For example, a Quebecker might say “J’ai trouvé le document que j’ai de besoin,” whereas a Metropolitan French speaker would form the sentence as “J’ai trouvé le document dont j’ai besoin.”

Some specifiers, like prepositions, collocate with certain verbs are taken out altogether. An example would be a Quebecker will say “J’ai un enfant à m’occuper,” but a Metropolitan French speaker will say this as “J’ai un enfant dont je dois m’occuper.” This Québec French way of forming sentences often results in major syntactic differences between the two French varieties.

Another good example of grammatical difference between Metropolitan and Québec French is the subject and object pronouns are, most of the time, not the same. In spoken Québec French “on” is used almost all of the time instead of “nous.” Some prepositions are also shortened in Québec French. Examples are a Quebecker will say s’a instead of sur la, dins instead of dans les, ands’es instead of surles. These are just a few of a large number of grammatical distinctions between the two varieties of French-and there are even grammatical structures that exist only in Québec French."


C'mon now, you should know this.

Finally; why would anyone think this is a "negative" thing? It's just another part of that "distinctive culture". ….. er, isn't it?
It is still proper French.
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Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Toronto
407 posts, read 88,294 times
Reputation: 363
Canada is passive/reserved given it's devotion to the Crown still, while US is revolutionary, experimental, brash, bold, and founded by blood thirsty capitalists, etc. Plus, our climate/weather leaves far to be desired.

At the same time, many Canadians feel 'superior' to the US in terms of exploitation of healthcare and people's vulnerability, race relations, mass shootings, etc. If you're young, want to make money, good purchasing power, the US is where it's at. I mean the US put the chips in WW2 and came out the big winner.

The global money supply is based on the US (Bretton wood) and essential ability to print money, basing key commodities in US dollars. Genius. The saying I've heard recently goes: work in the US when you're young, but move to Canada once you're older, have family, etc. for greater family life balance, peace, less crime, longer-term comprehensive health, and as importantly, RX coverage.
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