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Old 08-18-2019, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,011 posts, read 2,784,942 times
Reputation: 5187

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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Manners View Post
Of course CBC will say that, it is government news. Most people in Quebec don't feel Canadian the same way as in the ROC. Just because of that the poll is a dubious one.
Did you even bother to read the article or even the post you were responding to before posting? Do you really believe that Quebecers feel immigrants to Quebec are NOT as likely to be good citizens as people who were born there:

The article states:

Quote:
“When asked what makes a good citizen, the top five responses were: obeying laws, actively participating in the community, helping other people, being tolerant of others and sharing or adopting Canadian values.”
Do you really think Quebecers believe being a good citizen does not involve ANY of those five responses?

By the way, the Environics Institute who conducted the poll is not owned by the CBC or the government so the poll results aren’t government news. The CBC was just reporting the results of the poll. That’s what news outlets tend to do - report the news.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Québec
56 posts, read 31,130 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Did you even bother to read the article or even the post you were responding to before posting? Do you really believe that Quebecers feel immigrants to Quebec are NOT as likely to be good citizens as people who were born there:

The article states:



Do you really think Quebecers believe being a good citizen does not involve ANY of those five responses?

By the way, the Environics Institute who conducted the poll is not owned by the CBC or the government so the poll results aren’t government news. The CBC was just reporting the results of the poll. That’s what news outlets tend to do - report the news.
With an attitude like that, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to engage with you.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,252 posts, read 27,720,986 times
Reputation: 8713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I believe the point is that lumping " english Canada " as one entity, belies the differences, and there are differences.

Politics may not be the best way to show them, but food, religion and culture vary across " english Canada", sometimes quite dramatically.
Somewhat, yes.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,252 posts, read 27,720,986 times
Reputation: 8713
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I was thinking less of politics and more of the fact that English Canada is not English. .
The "English" in "English Canada" doesn't refer to ethnicity, it refers to the language the society uses to function. And like it or not, whether it's one's first or second language, if you use it to function in society that influences your societal view. From the point of view of a francophone living in Quebec there is no difference in the attitudes towards us, Quebec or even the basic vision of Canada between a Chinese-Canadian in Richmond BC or a WASP dude in Fredericton NB.

The only groups where is a see a deep and entrenched difference in the view of Canada from the mainstream are francophones, indigenous peoples (basically all of them) and maybe Newfoundlanders.

(Even the huffing and puffing from Alberta does not really translate to that different a view of Canada from mainstream Canada's.)
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,252 posts, read 27,720,986 times
Reputation: 8713
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I was thinking less of politics and more of the fact that English Canada is not English. The Ukrainians, the Mennonites, etc, etc, were all looked down on by the actual English. Kids were all warned that they could expect spankings if they spoke their language in playgrounds. And somehow francophone Canada is unaware of this and sees everyone in "English" Canada as English oppressors. There's not much sympathy for Quebec because these non Engish English Canadians all went through versions of having their language suppressed. French Canadians are not special in that regard.

As an example, one older Mennonite man who stopped by made a big to-do about telling me how he always told people he was bilingual. After getting their, "Really?" response, he said, "Yes, German and English." One heard this a lot here during Quebec's referendums.

Another example of a Russian-German immigrant who called my husband because she wanted his help in fighting a traffic ticket. She had been driving like the road was the Autobahn and wanted to fight the ticket on the grounds that it wasn't in her German language.

Newer immigrants have no idea how things were before PET and multiculturalism made it okay to be who you are. We were far too busy feeling inferior to actual English Canadians to feel inferior to Americans.
So they treated you like crap historically but you ended up making their vision of things your own and siding with them anyway.
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,735 posts, read 6,612,149 times
Reputation: 8246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
So they treated you like crap historically but you ended up making their vision of things your own and siding with them anyway.
Lol! One thing the French and the English have in common is linguistic and cultural arrogance!
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:15 PM
 
18,543 posts, read 10,559,495 times
Reputation: 13585
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
It's interesting to me how people can look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions. The 1948 writer of the linked speech comes to the conclusion that because Canadians are different from Americans and because he himself found a place there, that other Canadians must long to be American in outlook too. The border was a lot more fluid in those days and one would assume that if so many Canadians felt a longing to be American they would have fled south.

Another thing I notice now that I am old enough to have lived through different periods in Canada's history, is that often younger people come across ideas and think no one has ever thought through these things before. It really is irrelevant whether Obama was warned about a Canadian inferiority complex since that point of view is influenced by the American superiority complex, thinking too often, everyone wants to be like them. I also find it interesting that Quebec's laid back pace of life is used as an example of something good, something unique and special, whereas English Canada's lack of ambition is remarked on here as being inferior to American innovativeness.

Still another thing I notice is all ethnic groups west of Quebec are lumped into English Canada.

It's interesting as well, the part of the speech highlighted in the OP, about a country without its own literature, since the post-war period inspired a wave of Canadian writers and we most certainly now have, and have had for many years, Canadian literature. "Canadian literature" is a thing.

As far as Canadians longing to be American, I know of none, which brings me to another issue sometimes thrown at Canadians here, which is that we're smug. The "no racism here" statement would tie into that. Since smugness denotes a sense of superiority, it's hard to figure out what Canadians are being accused of sometimes, inferiority or superiority.

I'm with BruSan. Canadians have a superiority complex.
Now, now, …. remember; we're trying to show our humble side.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:45 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
5,001 posts, read 4,548,943 times
Reputation: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I was thinking less of politics and more of the fact that English Canada is not English. The Ukrainians, the Mennonites, etc, etc, were all looked down on by the actual English.
And now many Ukranians and Mennonites are the ones doing the same to recent arrivals. It happens to everyone. Most people come here very well aware that English or French are the languages to be learned. It was French and people from the British isles that built most of the institutions and governments of this country. I don't know why that is so hard to accept.

Last edited by UrbanLuis; 08-18-2019 at 06:08 PM..
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,011 posts, read 2,784,942 times
Reputation: 5187
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
And now many Ukranians and Mennonites are the ones doing the same to recent arrivals. It happens to everyone. Most people come here very well aware the English or French are the languages to be learned. It was French and people from the British isles that built most of the institutions and governments of this country. I don't know why that is so hard to accept.
I am surprised. Do you have a link that supports that comment? The Mennonites in Winnipeg, for example are very active in supporting newcomers. Here’s one such story: https://mcccanada.ca/stories/syrian-...-life-winnipeg
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,252 posts, read 27,720,986 times
Reputation: 8713
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Lol! One thing the French and the English have in common is linguistic and cultural arrogance!
It's a popular notion in certain circles that you don't actually have to pick sides and remain "above it all". It's especially revealing though when the line of discussion people always take is clear confirmation that they've taken sides and of which side that is.
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