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Old 08-16-2019, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Ontario
65 posts, read 53,810 times
Reputation: 112

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All the way back to the 1800's Canadians have been documented as having a staple inferiority complex vs. their more famous American brothers. In 1949 the Empire Club of Canada addressed this topic in a speech titled "That Inferiority Complex".

"Where the American in general is responsive to every new development afoot in the United States-the Canadian in general remains aloof, reserved, disinterested in significant happenings within his country.."

It has been argued that the complex is the result of Canada's failure to develop a real culture compared to the world's nations and especially the sibling next door. "But the failure to develop an important body of Canadian literature is due to an even more fundamental failure".

Today the complex stays with us and is greater than ever. It has even entered national matters of politics. Barack Obama's diplomats suggested that Canada should be the first country he visits because it would "do much to diminish -- temporarily at least -- Canada's habitual inferiority complex vis-a-vis the U.S. and its chronic but accurate complaint that the U.S. pays far less attention to Canada than Canada does to [the U.S.]." So even Barack Obama took this complex quite seriously.

Despite Canada being a fairly successful place as far as the countries of the world goes, many Canadians find it hard not to constantly compare themselves to Americans. A comparison that will in the large majority of cases only feed the inferiority complex and foster a juvenile need to strike back at the imaginary belligerent.

The desperate need for attention is also debilitating our country and leading to very real economic problems. There is the subject of the well-known brain drain, the phenomenon of Canada's best and brightest moving to America, especially in fields that are the most important to future development. Nearly 2/3 of software engineers move to the U.S. among other essential fields.

Mod cut: copyrighted images.



The truth is that most Canadians with the option move to America at their first available opportunity. Even Wayne Gretzky has been called out for his supposed abandonment of Canada. But in this case we are subsidising universities that are training talented professionals for the American market. "America or bust" is the thought process. How does that make sense for Canada?

The question is, what can be done to get Canadians to develop a confidence that should be inherent to a G8 country? Why do we have to compare ourselves to America at every opportunity? How do we stop the brain drain that is leaving Canada without any real tech companies or innovation of significance? When will we be capable of creating a Canadian Microsoft, a Canadian Google?

Last edited by PJSaturn; 08-16-2019 at 03:08 PM..
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Québec
69 posts, read 16,697 times
Reputation: 38
I would be interested to see how this compared with Quebec. I don't think there is as much of a "brain drain" from here in comparison.
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:15 PM
 
Location: YVR - YYJ - YOW
280 posts, read 230,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limelightkid View Post
How do we stop the brain drain that is leaving Canada without any real tech companies or innovation of significance? When will we be capable of creating a Canadian Microsoft, a Canadian Google?
BlackBerry (cue howling laughter).

There are a handful of great Canadian tech success stories (e.g. Shopify) but they are nowhere near the clout of what they've started down south. Great topic though, hope it does generate meaningful discussion.
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:23 PM
 
34,778 posts, read 42,006,516 times
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limelightkid You dont think much of your own country and if you identify so strongly as an American i suggest you move there.Even though i grew up in America i no longer identify as American and view myself as 100% proud Canadian.
As for your question? ='The question is, what can be done to get Canadians to develop a confidence that should be inherent to a G8 country? '. Canadians should stop listening to the opinions of naysayers like yourself and realize they are Canadians and not Americans.
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,248 posts, read 27,720,986 times
Reputation: 8713
Quote:
Originally Posted by limelightkid View Post
All the way back to the 1800's Canadians have been documented as having a staple inferiority complex vs. their more famous American brothers. In 1949 the Empire Club of Canada addressed this topic in a speech titled "That Inferiority Complex".

"Where the American in general is responsive to every new development afoot in the United States-the Canadian in general remains aloof, reserved, disinterested in significant happenings within his country.."

It has been argued that the complex is the result of Canada's failure to develop a real culture compared to the world's nations and especially the sibling next door. "But the failure to develop an important body of Canadian literature is due to an even more fundamental failure".

That was a fairly prescient speech. Thanks for sharing.


One of the answers I would have for you, though, is that things are that way because Canadians like them that way. Those who don't often end up moving to the U.S. (or somewhere else, but usually it is the U.S.). Or else they stay home and ***** about it, but generally speaking, that's only a minority of people.


Canada may not feel very uniquely and specially Canadian (I'd agree with this), but it's still the way most Canadians want it to be. Ultimately, that's what counts.


I will address a similar issue in another thread in the next few minutes.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,868 posts, read 11,324,651 times
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In terms of economy and productivity, i'm not so sure we as Canadians would want to sacrifice our lifestyle and work life balance in order to achieve higher productivity gains and boost our GDP, a lot more than it is already growing. To what end really!? The OP used a graphic showing the avg Torontonian Tech worker makes less than the avg U.S - but I blv in that graphic, which was taken out by a mod, Toronto was higher than London and Paris. That is ok with me. Canada is ranked about 13th in the world in terms of Productivity and the U.S 6th. We are doing well, though I would like to see Canada boost its R and D spend and become more innovative and entrepreneurial. It would also be nice if more Canadian companies remained Canadian. All too often it seems they are bought out by larger international and wealthier rivals. I'm also not a big fan of capitalistic super black hole companies becoming so extremely wealthy, that they are contributing way too much to a world where income inequality is becoming a REAL problem.

I'm not going to speak too much into the whole inferiority complex linked to a lack of culture. I think some in this forum like to blow things out of proportion and make more of it than what it is. Particular those who loooove to throw the superiority of Quebec's culture over English Canada's, whilst at the same time looooving to throw around this narrative with respect to some sort of jealousy complex Canada has over the U.S. As a matter of fact, seemingly that type of narrative and dynamic that some like to constantly engage in, constitutes its own psychological complex, worthy of perhaps of more examination, than the overblown Canadian inferiority complex.

What I will say is collectively, we Canadians have created a set of laws and created institutions and values that are impressive, and something to be proud of. Of course, we have our issues, our blemishes and I do wish we would do more to address the ghosts of our past, in order to more healthily move forward. That said, I think we got a good thing going here and i'm proud by and large of our country, our values and way of life. If that means being a little less competitive and less greedy, and a little more egalitarian than our friends down south, i'm truly happy about that. No complex at all there - just how I feel as a Canadian.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-16-2019 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,868 posts, read 11,324,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gailfo2 View Post
I would be interested to see how this compared with Quebec. I don't think there is as much of a "brain drain" from here in comparison.
Some people are simply going to go where the money is and that doesn't matter if you are a Quebecer, an Albertan, Ontarian or an Alaskan. Most do not though and just stay. What happens? Well they find a gf or a bf in College, start a family, have family obligations and just become entrenched in their life in the home country. The idea of moving to a foreign country simply because they could make more money, is simply not on their minds that much.

Besides - I'm not worrying about a brain drain in Canada. Yes there are those leaving for more pay and better opportunities, but some indications are we are holding our own in recruiting international talent these days and our tech scene is really blowing up.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ech-talent-is/
https://www.thestar.com/business/tec...h-america.html

Last edited by fusion2; 08-16-2019 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Ontario
65 posts, read 53,810 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
limelightkid You dont think much of your own country and if you identify so strongly as an American i suggest you move there.Even though i grew up in America i no longer identify as American and view myself as 100% proud Canadian.
As for your question? ='The question is, what can be done to get Canadians to develop a confidence that should be inherent to a G8 country? '. Canadians should stop listening to the opinions of naysayers like yourself and realize they are Canadians and not Americans.
I am living on the reservation I grew up in due to family matters. Near Red Lake.

I'm pretty sure my Canadian experience has been very different than yours.

I don't have to prove my Canadianness to anyone, especially not someone who just showed up.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Ontario
65 posts, read 53,810 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Some people are simply going to go where the money is and that doesn't matter if you are a Quebecer, an Albertan, Ontarian or an Alaskan. Most do not though and just stay. What happens? Well they find a gf or a bf in College, start a family, have family obligations and just become entrenched in their life in the home country. The idea of moving to a foreign country simply because they could make more money, is simply not on their minds that much.

Besides - I'm not worrying about a brain drain in Canada. Yes there are many leaving for more pay and better opportunities, but some indications are we are holding our own in recruiting international talent these days and our tech scene is really blowing up.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ech-talent-is/
https://www.thestar.com/business/tec...h-america.html
We are doing a good job attracting foreign talent, and that's good. But that foreign talent is often using Canada as a runner up prize, and large percentages of them move on to America ASAP.

For example...

2/3 of software engineer graduates move to the U.S

1/3 of computer engineer grads

1/3 of computer science grads

Over 1/4 of Engineering science grads

1/4 of systems design engineer grads

1/6 of physics graduates


That's simply mid blowing!

We need to actually retain the foreign talent to become more successful.

Right now we are prepping them for careers in America.

So how do we do that?

- Pay higher wages
- Tax incentives for cutting edge professions (e.g. software engineers)
- Create better work environments. More work from home, unlimited paid vacation. Stuff like that?
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,868 posts, read 11,324,651 times
Reputation: 3903
Quote:
Originally Posted by limelightkid View Post
We are doing a good job attracting foreign talent, and that's good. But that foreign talent is often using Canada as a runner up prize, and large percentages of them are going on to America. For example, 65% of software engineer graduates move to the U.S. That's mid blowing! We need to retain foreign talent to become more successful. So how do we do that?



- Pay higher wages
- Tax incentives for cutting edge professions (e.g. software engineers)
- Create better work environments. More work from home, unlimited paid vacation. Stuff like that?
I'm not sure if they are using Canada as a 'runner' up prize as you are saying. Human beings aren't machines looking to make the most money. There are a whole host of reasons why people make a huge move to a country. I think Canada should do more of what Canada does in terms of creating a healthy and balanced society. People can and are attracted to places where they respect the values and ideals of the host country.

Canada's tech scene is just emerging now and is behind the U.S - BUT it is growing and as much as there are people leaving, you do have a sizable amount staying. You can also strategically boost immigration levels in areas whereby drain is more an issue. Of course, I think the more powerful and robust the local scene is, the more competitive it will be and will naturally be able to address shortage by making wages more competitive as well.

It is a multi pronged effort. I also think we could look at recruiting talent within the U.S. There is a sizable and growing number of talented individuals, that would simply align more with our values and way of life. You may find one at a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren rally.. Let em know how good it is up here. They may not be able to make quite as much money as in Silicon Valley, but they may be happier human beings here than there.

Besides - we could also market our cheaper rent prices and universal healthcare policy and gun laws and how we say sorry when we bump into you at Whole Foods. Fact is, Canada's tech scene is growing and is stronger than ever - worrying about talent and how to deal with growth is a good thing.

https://www.siliconvalley.com/2018/0...stay-sky-high/
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