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Old 08-27-2019, 01:12 PM
 
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Perhaps the best that can be hoped for with the lot we've been given to choose from is a minority government again.
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Old 08-27-2019, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Yup, I totally agree.

I also think the Liberal party is swinging too far to the left, to NDP territory. That leaves a centrist with no choice.

I prefer a balanced political pendulum that gently swings back and forth on either side of centre where Canadians can see some merits and some things they dislike in both parties. That way, when the political power changes, no one is too upset. Compromise is possible. In contrast, extremes mean a wildly swinging pendulum because every strong swing in one direction will probably result, when the governing power gets stinky as it always does with time, in a violent swing in the opposite direction.
Hereís to the swing voters.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XJP20n-WzMA
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,894 posts, read 11,380,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Perhaps the best that can be hoped for with the lot we've been given to choose from is a minority government again.
I am actually kind of hoping for it. I don't think the liberals deserve a majority mandate, yet i'm not sure the current leader of the Conservatives is a leader most Canadians can feel comfortable with. I think the cons need to move themselves a bit more along to the left when it comes to social policy. 74 percent of Canadians and 80 percent of Quebecers support gay marriage. 77 percent of Canadians support abortion rights (thought it would higher), but the numbers are pretty clear, we are not a socially conservative country by and large, yet the Conservatives seem more than happy to prop up a guy like Scheer, who we know is not exactly mister 2019 from a social progressivism standpoint.

This is a part of the reason why I think the Cons aren't crushing the liberals in the polls. There is an uneasiness with them and their leader. I know Harper got in but, that was due to extreme unhappiness about liberal corruption. He also rode the coattails of what was seen as good economic management during the 2008 crash. That said, there was never a sort of pan national love for him like we saw with Trudeau. Trudeau of 2015 represented that 77-80 percent of Canadians much better than Harper or Scheer ever could. The Trudeau of 2019, not the same because the leopard showed his teeth. He can't play off the same tune he did 4 years ago. The Federal liberals always seem to have the unique ability to shoot themselves in the foot.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:19 PM
 
5,309 posts, read 2,584,322 times
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Ralph Goodale, Canada's Minister of Public Safety in the present Cabinet headed by Justin Trudeau, was Canada's Minister of Finance from 2003 to 2006, and leader of the Saskatchewan Liberal Party from 1981 to 1988. He opposed gay marriage at the same time as Sheer.

Apparently it is possible for people to change their minds.
"The Toronto Star article was based on a video of a speech released by Liberal Minister of Public Safety Ralph Goodale in which Scheer talks about his opinions on gay marriage at the time.

What the article didnít mention, however, was that Ralph Goodale himself and numerous other Liberals have voted in opposition to gay marriage."
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/li...-scheer-smear/
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,894 posts, read 11,380,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Ralph Goodale, Canada's Minister of Public Safety in the present Cabinet headed by Justin Trudeau, was Canada's Minister of Finance from 2003 to 2006, and leader of the Saskatchewan Liberal Party from 1981 to 1988. He opposed gay marriage at the same time as Sheer.

Apparently it is possible for people to change their minds.
"The Toronto Star article was based on a video of a speech released by Liberal Minister of Public Safety Ralph Goodale in which Scheer talks about his opinions on gay marriage at the time.

What the article didn’t mention, however, was that Ralph Goodale himself and numerous other Liberals have voted in opposition to gay marriage."
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/li...-scheer-smear/
Yeah and i made reference to the fact that at the time, lots of Politicians including liberals and Goodale himself voted against it in my OP. I'll stick by what I said however, that the Conservatives and particularly their leader, are not exactly seen as a socially progressive. He curbs to the right where most Canadians curb left. This will be an issue for the Conservatives in growing their base for years to come, until they change their social policy or at least the perception of it.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-27-2019 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,894 posts, read 11,380,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Yup, I totally agree.

I also think the Liberal party is swinging too far to the left, to NDP territory. That leaves a centrist with no choice.

I prefer a balanced political pendulum that gently swings back and forth on either side of centre where Canadians can see some merits and some things they dislike in both parties. That way, when the political power changes, no one is too upset. Compromise is possible. In contrast, extremes mean a wildly swinging pendulum because every strong swing in one direction will probably result, when the governing power gets stinky as it always does with time, in a violent swing in the opposite direction.
Good post, I agree as well. Is it Liberal policy that you think has swung too far left or just how the PM presents himself. I think he goes too far sometimes. In retrospect that whole peoplekind vs mankind, he went too far to the point of being nauseating. I'm not so much against Liberal policies per se, as much as I question the logic and judgement of Trudeau.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,060 posts, read 4,583,910 times
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I don't agree with Scheer on gay marriage, how ever I don't think this should be used against him. People are entitled to their opinion. A growing number of Canadians, specially newer Canadians share these views. Much of the support of the Conservative party comes from religious communities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I think he goes too far sometimes. In retrospect that whole peoplekind vs mankind, he went too far to the point of being nauseating. I'm not so much against Liberal policies per se, as much as I question the logic and judgement of Trudeau.
I agree. A lot of the things Trudeau says and does are nauseating.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,048 posts, read 2,801,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Is it Liberal policy that you think has swung too far left or just how the PM presents himself.
Trudeau himself but heís the one that currently sets party policy and priorities.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,894 posts, read 11,380,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
I don't agree with Scheer on gay marriage, how ever I don't think this should be used against him. People are entitled to their opinion. A growing number of Canadians, specially newer Canadians share these views. Much of the support of the Conservative party comes from religious communities.
.
Well no, his personal beliefs should not be used against him. That said, he would be the Prime Minister for all Canadians. His lack of appearances at major Gay Pride parades in the country is a valid criticism that his personal beliefs would indeed cross over into the political realm. He doesn't have to believe in gay marriage personally, but he should separate that part of him in the political realm and show face and support for all people he would be entrusted to govern. Even Doug Ford showed face at a Pride Parade.

Also it isn't just him though, it is the whole conservative platform. I don't think the Conservatives can ignore the fact that as a party, they are going to turn off a portion of the swing vote simply because of their social conservatism. This will hamper their performance.

As for immigrants, at least in the GTA last election, they came out in droves for Trudeau last election. I get many of them aren't exactly going to be throwing beads in a Pride Parade, but it isn't necessarily going to sway them towards voting Conservative on that alone. I think the Cons have more to lose with the 77 percent of established Canadians vs the representatively small percentage of newcomers, who by the way shouldn't be broad brush stroked as all inherently socially conservative. Part of the reason they leave the homeland, is because they aren't happy in socially repressed societies. They are also relatively young thus probably more open minded.

Support for Gay marriage has been trending upwards in Canada for years. Even with the influx of immigrants. From 2012 to 2017 support rose from 67 percent to 74 percent.

https://www.crop.ca/en/blog/2017/207/

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Trudeau himself but he’s the one that currently sets party policy and priorities.
Yup totally agreed.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-27-2019 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,060 posts, read 4,583,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post

As for immigrants, at least in the GTA last election, they came out in droves for Trudeau last election. I get most of them aren't exactly going to be throwing beads in a Pride Parade, but it isn't necessarily going to sway them towards voting Conservative on that alone. I think the Cons have more to lose with the 77 percent of established Canadians vs the representatively small percentage of newcomers, who by the way shouldn't be broad brush stroked as all inherently socially conservative. Part of the reason they leave the homeland, is because they aren't happy in socially repressed societies.
Immigrants also came out in droves for Ford. I never said all newer Canadians support the conservatives but many of the biggest immigrant groups to Canada do come from some of the most religious and conservative countries on earth and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Just because they come from socially repressed conservative countries does not mean they will automatically become liberal here in Canada. Remember the big issue around the sex ed curiculum in Ontario schools? That was mostly religious immigrants complaining about it.
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