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Old 08-28-2019, 11:22 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,996 posts, read 4,544,283 times
Reputation: 3348

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
.

Failure to address these gaps, and you have situations like this in the heart of Toronto: Chinese Nationalists Crash Hongkong Democracy Rally with Luxury Cars
This is actually pretty troubling.



Quote:
I don’t think we are anywhere near 10% with respect to any single cultural group which maintains a strong identity with the “mother country” beyond the first or second generation.
In cities there are groups above the 10%. The biggest centres of power. We already see them flexing their muscle. Just look at the article Bostonkid posted. Then we have the example of "liberal" politician Karen Wang in Burnaby South encouraging people to vote for her because she is Chinese.
Quote:
Karen Wang wrote that as the only Chinese candidate, she could beat Jagmeet Singh, noting he is Indian
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...tion-1.4980537
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,862 posts, read 11,320,485 times
Reputation: 3888
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
I don’t think we are anywhere near 10% with respect to any single cultural group which maintains a strong identity with the “mother country” beyond the first or second generation. I’d be wary if we were though. Imagine, for example, the Chinese government strongly influencing Canadian foreign policy through its propaganda efforts targeting Chinese Canadians.

One way to even out immigration would be through annual quotas set for the various areas of world. That would be a fair way to do it, assuming applicants are equally qualified. I don’t think quotas are even close to being necessary now and may never be if descendants of immigrants integrate. Long term, though, I think Canada will be seeing an overwhelming number of applications from climate refugees from around the world as certain areas become uninhabitable and fresh water becomes an issue. Not my problem though. I’ll be long dead.
I think we are all to some degree a product of the environment we grow up in. For me, growing up as a kid and then going to high school in the 80's and 90's in Suburban Toronto, to being an adult now and working for a company with 1200 people in Suburban Toronto, a constant in my life is either going to school with, going to work with, being friends with and even marrying someone, from points all over the world. Literally countries from all continents.

Based on all that, all my interactions with all these people, it is hard for me to sort of just compartmentalize them or their collective views. Their views are as diverse as their ethnicities. What I will say, and I caution us all to try to avoid, is an assumption that they are not by and large integrating. In my experience, the vast majority are doing that. Of course we have communities where there are large disaspora's and in some instances, people within them not doing that.

For those people who are not integrating well, i'm not against programs to push integration along. I just think however, before we go ahead and do something about it, including coming up with a selective immigration quota policy, that we have an awareness of where integration is actually not being successful and to what extent we want to force integration. How far do we want to go with it and what is the standard. What are we measuring against and which values as Canadians do we need immigrants to live up to. If we don't know, how can they.

I don't think you're going to find any group where no integration is occurring. If I apply the Chinese nationalism in Canada sentiment to every Chinese immigrant in Canada, that would do that community a massive injustice. I think of the dozens of Chinese immigrants I know, they are living their lives as Chinese Canadians. It Is hard for me to use Chinese national news stations or luxury car protesters against a pretty vast number of East Asians in Canada. We need to temper emotional reactions with solid information, facts and evidence for communities as a whole.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-29-2019 at 05:31 AM..
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,862 posts, read 11,320,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
This is actually pretty troubling.

In cities there are groups above the 10%. The biggest centres of power. We already see them flexing their muscle. Just look at the article Bostonkid posted. Then we have the example of "liberal" politician Karen Wang in Burnaby South encouraging people to vote for her because she is Chinese.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...tion-1.4980537
There are similar examples of aggressive Chinese nationalist protesters going on in other places. Australia is dealing with it as well.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/humi...19-p52in4.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49159820

It is one thing to have protests, it is another when you get countries like China and Russia, actively leveraging social media and media outlets in general, to fan targeted nationalistic flames in other countries. That has noting to do with immigration or integration, those are attacks on our democracy. For me, this is a bigger problem that has to do with a country like China, flexing its muscle outside its borders and crossing the line.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-29-2019 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:52 AM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,996 posts, read 4,544,283 times
Reputation: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post

It is one thing to have protests, it is another when you get countries like China and Russia, actively leveraging social media and media outlets in general, to fan targeted nationalistic flames in other countries. That has noting to do with immigration or integration, those are attacks on our democracy. For me, this is a bigger problem that has to do with a country like China, flexing its muscle outside its borders and crossing the line.
Completely ignore the Karen Wang article. She is not an internet troll, she lives in Canada. I assume most of those people that shut down the hong kong protestors live here legally too.

I am not interested in what happens in Australia but if its happening there, maybe that really does say something.
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Old 08-30-2019, 07:12 AM
 
2,586 posts, read 2,220,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Completely ignore the Karen Wang article. She is not an internet troll, she lives in Canada. I assume most of those people that shut down the hong kong protestors live here legally too.

I am not interested in what happens in Australia but if its happening there, maybe that really does say something.
It's been going on for years - ethnic Chinese communities being fanned by Chinese nationalism protesting abroad in western countries like Canada, Australia, US, UK, Germany, etc. Typically, their targets are any individual or group who opposes Chinese (Beijing) government policy - whether it be the victims of 1989 Tiananmen massacre, Falungong spiritual practitioners, human rights lawyers and activists (Amnesty International, Oxfam), etc. Typically, their demand goes along the lines of: "You said this and this, so you must apologize because you've hurt the feelings of all Chinese people and you are interfering in the internal affairs of China." (ironic considering how China routinely interferes in the affairs of other countries including Canada and routinely tells the Canadian government what to say or not say).

This has been going on for a good part of the last 30 years, ever since the "Reform and Opening Up" period in China in mid 1980s when Chinese economy started to take off at double digit growth rates. The reason you've seen an uptick in these nationalist outbursts in recent years is because there is a wide-spread perception among Chinese people all over the world that China's "status" or "prestige" is at a point where it is on par to become the eminent superpower in the world, ready to rival the United States. It's this new found "confidence" (warranted or not) that is fanning these extreme nationalist acts abroad in cities like Toronto or Melbourne, and often aided and funded by the local Chinese embassy.

Just to give everyone a little background.
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Old Yesterday, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,006 posts, read 2,782,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
It's been going on for years - ethnic Chinese communities being fanned by Chinese nationalism protesting abroad in western countries like Canada, Australia, US, UK, Germany, etc. Typically, their targets are any individual or group who opposes Chinese (Beijing) government policy - whether it be the victims of 1989 Tiananmen massacre, Falungong spiritual practitioners, human rights lawyers and activists (Amnesty International, Oxfam), etc. Typically, their demand goes along the lines of: "You said this and this, so you must apologize because you've hurt the feelings of all Chinese people and you are interfering in the internal affairs of China." (ironic considering how China routinely interferes in the affairs of other countries including Canada and routinely tells the Canadian government what to say or not say).

This has been going on for a good part of the last 30 years, ever since the "Reform and Opening Up" period in China in mid 1980s when Chinese economy started to take off at double digit growth rates. The reason you've seen an uptick in these nationalist outbursts in recent years is because there is a wide-spread perception among Chinese people all over the world that China's "status" or "prestige" is at a point where it is on par to become the eminent superpower in the world, ready to rival the United States. It's this new found "confidence" (warranted or not) that is fanning these extreme nationalist acts abroad in cities like Toronto or Melbourne, and often aided and funded by the local Chinese embassy.

Just to give everyone a little background.
Tiny Lithuania has had enough.

Chinese ambassador summoned in Lithuania over ‘deplorable behaviour’ by officials during show of support for Hong Kong protesters: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ver-deplorable

Quote:
Pro-Beijing supporters briefly disrupted the demonstration in the Baltic state, shouting slogans such as “Hong Kong is part of China” against demonstrators.
““The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) of the Republic of Lithuania deplores and rejects the actions by the staff of the Embassy of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) who were involved in organising the unlawful actions undertaken by the Chinese citizens during this incident,”

Quote:
Lithuanian lawmaker Mantas Adomėnas, the organiser of the demonstration, told the Post he had also witnessed Shen (the Chinese ambassador) “personally observing from the sidelines” and directing people who were at the counter-protests.

“There is video evidence. And our MFA was relying on the State Security Department information regarding the role PRC Embassy performed in the organisation, or coordination of the counterprotest,” Adomėnas said.
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Old Today, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,862 posts, read 11,320,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post

I am not interested in what happens in Australia but if its happening there, maybe that really does say something.
So you are kind of interested in what is happening then as you/we should be. I think we can all agree, that the meddling of our domestic affairs by the Chinese government is not acceptable. This has nothing to do with integration or multiculturalism, which is a matter of domestic policy decisions, it is more of a clear and present danger from a foreign entity and it is not just impacting Canada.
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Old Today, 05:52 PM
Status: "El Paso in our thoughts and prayers" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Canada
4,996 posts, read 4,544,283 times
Reputation: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
So you are kind of interested in what is happening then as you/we should be. I think we can all agree, that the meddling of our domestic affairs by the Chinese government is not acceptable. This has nothing to do with integration or multiculturalism, which is a matter of domestic policy decisions, it is more of a clear and present danger from a foreign entity and it is not just impacting Canada.
Lets agree to disagree.
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Old Today, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,862 posts, read 11,320,485 times
Reputation: 3888
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Lets agree to disagree.
Surprising answer. I'm not sure what we are even disagreeing on anymore but keeping things civil is always welcomed

As for Scheer - we'll see but i bet one day you're going to say - you know Fusion, you were right, if the Conservatives want to gain more mainstream traction and become a stronger force in Canadians politics, they are going to have to put a bit more socially progressive policies in place, and identify more as that. I think most Canadians would agree with me. We might get a glimpse of that this October! We'll see what happens.
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