U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-07-2019, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Québec
64 posts, read 32,682 times
Reputation: 81

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Honestly, Canadians - anglophone or quebecois - should all feel extremely fortunate to have the current situation where there is a wide degree of tolerance, accommodation, and mutual respect on both sides, even when it comes to sensitive issues such as separation.

In most countries around the world, this would easily descend into civil war, or at the very least with one side (the majority) actively suppressing the separating minority via force. Just look at the recent headline news regarding the status of Hong Kong and how the HK and Beijing governments used violent force to suppress all discussions regarding a higher degree of autonomy for Hong Kong (forget about separation, that is a taboo word in HK unless you want a one way ticket to prison). Or the independence of Taiwan - with Beijing threatening to deploy 1300+ short range nuclear war heads should the island announce independence.

Quebec and the rest of Canada are extremely fortunate.
I am sure that part of the benign attitudes are due to Canada's not being a true nation but little more than two different nations or more who were placed in to the same political boundary by Great Britain.

So there isn't the shared bond that people have in the USA or Brazil or something else comparable. It's also not like Canada could ever start a war on the border of the USA. Then the only path is for English Canadians and the French Canadians with them to combat Quebec peacefully. That is a good thing!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-07-2019, 10:43 PM
 
34,868 posts, read 42,080,403 times
Reputation: 30260
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Manners View Post
Most of pro-independence people like me just don't think we have a government that still doesn't ever represent us. We are a different country in all but name. So when some posters talk about how Quebec is just 1 of 10 provinces it is insulting because we aren't just a political boundary like PEI or Manitoba we are a completely different nation who aligns with our provincial border.
Until you make that separation from Canada you are just a Canadian province where the majority language is French.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2019, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Out here in BC, I would agree. I don't hear people talking much about separation, but when they do, it's usually thought of as a Quebec decision and from my experience, most do not want it to leave.

They may not understand why Quebeckers sometimes feel this way, and do think of some of them are whiners, when really, they have been given such leeway within Canada.

If, and it's a big if, the time comes, I have yet to hear anyone say it would be a violent event. It would be done methodically and legally.
I think this is a sound assessment. My experience in close contact with family members (all of my siblings' spouses and my wife's are from outside Quebec) is the same. I also have lots of old anglo friends from my years growing up and working in four of the five central-eastern provinces that are not Quebec.


I think jambo's frame of reference is skewed towards former Quebec anglos who still have some lingering bitterness. That's an experiential and probably also generational variable that doesn't exist among the people we know - who are much more representative of people in the 9 provinces other than Quebec.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,746 posts, read 9,605,628 times
Reputation: 6900
“Seatbelt language” sounds like the seatbelts were caught using profanity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
16,824 posts, read 27,084,477 times
Reputation: 27002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
“Seatbelt language” sounds like the seatbelts were caught using profanity in English.
Fixed that for ya.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Toronto
1,725 posts, read 1,671,487 times
Reputation: 3017
I will use the same defence I used while living in Quebec....

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2019, 12:00 AM
 
1,122 posts, read 1,704,619 times
Reputation: 1029
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't think it would be a big deal for Boeing or Airbus to work with contractors to have requisite official languages engraved or displayed on customer facing areas. Especially when Air Canada's has paid 10's of billions of dollars for aircraft from these manufacturers' - especially Boeing. I get it, It can get out of hand if you are expecting a number of languages but for two prominent and official languages in a country and when your customer is placing such large orders, is it really much to ask. I'm thinking not.

I agree with you that some people will take it too far when a reasonable person would say big deal. Not only that but it would be impossible to satisfy every single linguistic demand, However, I don't think we should just let everyone off the hook when it comes to language requirements, especially for items like buckles that are safety sensitive and I don't think it would be that difficult for them to have English and French engraved. What is likely is that Air Canada did not even mention it on their list of requirements.

It would be interesting to see if the new Airbus 220's AC is taking delivery of will have them engraved as they were/are manufactured on Bombardier's assembly line in Montreal.

I just took some flights, and just started to notice the markings on the plane. Most aircrafts do have signs in the languages of the markets the airline serves, and also in English. There are a few English signs visible to passengers that are not in any other languages, but those are meant for the crew. Based on the complaints filed by this particular couple, think they will still complain about those as well.


Complaining about the buckle is just taking it too far, making it frivolous. I've only seen either blank or buckles that say LIFT. Have never seen any other languages engraved on plane buckles. If the buckle that says LIFT causes a problem with Air Canada, then they might as well just change to blank buckles. Just for cost and practical considerations. With the safety demonstration in various languages in the aircraft, no one really needs to have have LIFT put there anymore. And in fact, in my recent flights, it's actually the newer aircraft (A350) that has blank buckles and has image signs, while the older aircraft (A330) has buckles that says "LIFT". It is probably a safety concern for Airbus and Boeing if airlines are free to engrave three or four languages on the buckle as it will make it so thin. And make it less flexible. I've also been on planes in the past with additional languages on them, in this case Spanish on a flight in Asian airline flying within Asia, only to learn later that it used to be a plane that belonged to Iberia and sold to an Asian airlines.


Like it or not, the aviation industry's official language is English. Pilots and flight attendants need to at least have some knowledge in English before they can fly internationally. There are English announcements in every flight I've been, even domestic flights in countries where English is not an official language. Just odd that it is Canada that has an English-speaking majority that has a problem with this. No other country I know has problems when English signs are larger and more prominent. Since English words are usually more concise, it's easy to put up a larger sign that says EXIT in a larger font compared to SORTIE, but I guess that's against the law too, even on planes that fly from Toronto to Vancouver, where the majority of the passengers cannot even speak French. After buckles, what's next? The faucets that says "H" and "C"? Or the soap at the lavatory that only got the label "SOAP"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
I just took some flights, and just started to notice the markings on the plane. Most aircrafts do have signs in the languages of the markets the airline serves, and also in English. There are a few English signs visible to passengers that are not in any other languages, but those are meant for the crew. Based on the complaints filed by this particular couple, think they will still complain about those as well.


Complaining about the buckle is just taking it too far, making it frivolous. I've only seen either blank or buckles that say LIFT. Have never seen any other languages engraved on plane buckles. If the buckle that says LIFT causes a problem with Air Canada, then they might as well just change to blank buckles. Just for cost and practical considerations. With the safety demonstration in various languages in the aircraft, no one really needs to have have LIFT put there anymore. And in fact, in my recent flights, it's actually the newer aircraft (A350) that has blank buckles and has image signs, while the older aircraft (A330) has buckles that says "LIFT". It is probably a safety concern for Airbus and Boeing if airlines are free to engrave three or four languages on the buckle as it will make it so thin. And make it less flexible. I've also been on planes in the past with additional languages on them, in this case Spanish on a flight in Asian airline flying within Asia, only to learn later that it used to be a plane that belonged to Iberia and sold to an Asian airlines.


Like it or not, the aviation industry's official language is English. Pilots and flight attendants need to at least have some knowledge in English before they can fly internationally. There are English announcements in every flight I've been, even domestic flights in countries where English is not an official language. Just odd that it is Canada that has an English-speaking majority that has a problem with this. No other country I know has problems when English signs are larger and more prominent. Since English words are usually more concise, it's easy to put up a larger sign that says EXIT in a larger font compared to SORTIE, but I guess that's against the law too, even on planes that fly from Toronto to Vancouver, where the majority of the passengers cannot even speak French. After buckles, what's next? The faucets that says "H" and "C"? Or the soap at the lavatory that only got the label "SOAP"?
"Canada" doesn't have a "problem" with this and neither does Canada's English-speaking majority.


The broader issue is that Air Canada seems to have an attitude problem when it comes to abiding by its legal responsibilities when it comes to providing bilingual services. AC's heart isn't in it when it comes to bilingualism, and this bubbles over into complaints from the public that are both frivolous (in appearance) and also non-frivolous. All of these complaints are symptomatic of a larger, systemic attitude problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2019, 06:07 PM
 
493 posts, read 185,874 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
As for what the English feel toward Quebec? from the dozen or so friends and family living outside Quebec its a couldnt care less what the whiny Quebecers do ,hurry up and separate eh ..
I like to hear that. Please, give them a referendum and let them kick Q out. It was wrong for only Q to have a referendum, the referendum should have been held nation-wide so that the other provinces can kick out Q.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I would strongly disagree that most Canadians outside Quebec have a "hurry up and separate" attitude.

Oh Acajack, will the day ever come on that you will agree on something what Jambo said?
Will that be the day of the Arrival of the Promised Land and when Golden Honey will rain from the skies?
'Cause I am making a strike each time you voice a difference in opinion and I already gotta buy a new notebook.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
You can disagree all you want but it probably comes down to who you are talking to in my case all the people i talk to are English and at one point resided in Quebec, they all left due to the absurd linguistic expectations of the Quebec government so i guess they have a bit of a chip on their shoulder regarding Quebec.
Bad Anglos are those who reside in Q, once they leave, they become good Anglos


I'm glad that the ling. ex. of the Q. gov. worked so well, they succeeded in what they were supposed to achieve, unfortunately in these days they do not work so well anymore = too many Anglos stay.

I agree with Jambo. His statement is the prevailing opinion among Canadian Anglos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
In most countries around the world, this would easily descend into civil war, or at the very least with one side (the majority) actively suppressing the separating minority via force.
Ottawa also used force, it used the force of money to massively advertise Canadian unity in 1995. Ottawa bought people to demonstrate for a pseudo-unity in 1995...they were sent with busses from Ontario to Montréal to tell the press they love Québec....none of these Anglos actually liked Q but they were given money by Ottawa to say so and they did their job... Once they returned back they threw away all the unity garbage. Ottawa spend ultra milliards in keeping Q under its control.

Like on an oriental bazaar market where the woman is sold for forced marriage, Québec is also sold for forced marriage with Ottawa...


Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsereed View Post
If all 10 provinces were standalone countries my guess is Quebec would do better than most. It has a broader, more diverse economy than all others save for Ontario.
Yes!


Quote:
Originally Posted by No Manners View Post
Most of pro-independence people like me just don't think we have a government that still doesn't ever represent us. We are a different country in all but name. So when some posters talk about how Quebec is just 1 of 10 provinces it is insulting because we aren't just a political boundary like PEI or Manitoba we are a completely different nation who aligns with our provincial border.
Yeah, we will continue to legislate ourselves into a de facto nation

I mean, Anglo-Canada is independent but it feels like the US anyway, Guatemala is independent but it feels like Honduras and Costa Rica. What matters is how we FEEL!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Until you make that separation from Canada you are just a Canadian province where the majority language is French.
indeed!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think jambo's frame of reference is skewed towards former Quebec anglos who still have some lingering bitterness. That's an experiential and probably also generational variable that doesn't exist among the people we know - who are much more representative of people in the 9 provinces other than Quebec.

Aha, so you suppose Jambo's frame of reference to be skewed towards a special opinion but you expect yourself and Natnasci to be living in a circle that is not skewed towards a special opinion?
So you are telling us that you surround yourself with people of representative opinion and
the contrary opinion must always be a biased niche sized group?
And, of course, the representative opinion can be no other opinion than the one you share.
The only official opinion that is approved by the Ottawa Central Unity Authority Government.
Jambo surrounds himself with like-minded people, but so do you, too, Acajack and Natnasci also.
Jambo's frame of reference is no more skewed in its angle than yours.

I think Jambo's statements are MOST REPRESENTATIVE.
Acajack is much less representative than Jambo because Acajack lives in a cross-border-bilingual-region that heavily depends on federal Ottawa jobs, meaning that Acajack lives in a place where the feeling of Canadian unity is the strongest, a place where there is the highest percentage of pro-Canadian francophones; and a place where there are more Anglos that have a good opinion on Québec because that is what they are automatically institutionally told to have and people adopt the opinion of the institutions they work in; Acajack lives in the city that VOTED with the highest number of NO votes against independence, while the rest of Q is much different.


Jambo's opinion is much more representative because he lives on the West Island and the West Island has the highest concentration of contacts with Anglo-Canada, so he knows what Anglo-Canadians think of Q. While Acajack lives in a Unity Bubble that only is representative of the Greater Ottawa Region, Jambo lives in the real world where Anglos would like Québec to say goodbye to Canada forever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2019, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,895 posts, read 3,471,855 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post


Acajack is much less representative than Jambo because Acajack lives in a cross-border-bilingual-region that heavily depends on federal Ottawa jobs, meaning that Acajack lives in a place where the feeling of Canadian unity is the strongest, a place where there is the highest percentage of pro-Canadian francophones; and a place where there are more Anglos that have a good opinion on Québec because that is what they are automatically institutionally told to have and people adopt the opinion of the institutions they work in; Acajack lives in the city that VOTED with the highest number of NO votes against independence, while the rest of Q is much different.


Jambo's opinion is much more representative because he lives on the West Island and the West Island has the highest concentration of contacts with Anglo-Canada, so he knows what Anglo-Canadians think of Q. While Acajack lives in a Unity Bubble that only is representative of the Greater Ottawa Region, Jambo lives in the real world where Anglos would like Québec to say goodbye to Canada forever.
Just to note, the French speaking couple at the center of this lawsuit lives in Ottawa and says they have no plans to stop flying Air Canada. Wouldn't that hint that they still are proud to be Canadian even though they would like to see equal representation of both English and French? Is there a problem with loving one's heritage and language but still feel a sense of belonging? Sheesh, what would Wilfrid Laurier have said if he were still alive today?

And in defense of Acajack, he has written some of the most logical and well thought out responses I have read in City Data Forum on all matters regarding Quebec, the French language, and independence seeking. I have no idea where you get the notion that he or any other individual living in the Outaouais Region is in any way not supportive of Quebec and I do wish you would stop with the personal attacks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top