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Old 09-11-2019, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Montreal
475 posts, read 293,335 times
Reputation: 349

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Just to note, the French speaking couple at the center of this lawsuit lives in Ottawa and says they have no plans to stop flying Air Canada. Wouldn't that hint that they still are proud to be Canadian even though they would like to see equal representation of both English and French? Is there a problem with loving one's heritage and language but still feel a sense of belonging? Sheesh, what would Wilfrid Laurier have said if he were still alive today?
Of course not. However there is a large segment of Quebecois who don't feel that sense of belonging or else interpret being Canadian in a very different way from anglo Canadians in the ROC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
And in defense of Acajack, he has written some of the most logical and well thought out responses I have read in City Data Forum on all matters regarding Quebec, the French language, and independence seeking. I have no idea where you get the notion that he or any other individual living in the Outaouais Region is in any way not supportive of Quebec and I do wish you would stop with the personal attacks.
Acajack's views are the most easily digested for anglo Canadians & Americans. That's OK but his views are very skewed in a Quebec perspective. Most Quebecois do not live in a place nearly as united in English vs. French as Acajack (Ottawa). That is fine but not representative. I agree with QuebecOpec that jambo101's views are more typical of the anglo Canadians you would meet in every day life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Until you make that separation from Canada you are just a Canadian province where the majority language is French.
Good evening jambo101,

Quebec is so much more than that, and has much more to grow.

Quebec is a nation but not a country; Canada is a country but not a nation.

This partly feeds into the oft-referenced inferiority complex that is the bedrock of anglo Canadian "culture".

It also feeds into the misconception that the Quebecois are "malcontents" when we are only exercising what rightfully belongs to our nation.

Last edited by PBeauchamp; 09-11-2019 at 08:17 PM..
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:59 PM
 
493 posts, read 185,874 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Just to note, the French speaking couple at the center of this lawsuit lives in Ottawa and says they have no plans to stop flying Air Canada. Wouldn't that hint that they still are proud to be Canadian even though they would like to see equal representation of both English and French?

Oh Urban Peasant, you're such an optimistic person always looking on the bright side!
When they say they have no plans to stop flying Air Canada, they mean they will continue to look for inscriptions that are not in French and even though they claim to be outraged by English-only signs, secretly we the smart kids all know they love English signs 'cause they finance them one-year vacations!

I'm going to translate it for you from Thibodeau French to American English:

[...blablabla...] =

"We will continue to fly with Air Canada, so that we can look for more English-only signs and English-only announcements and more importantly the ability of the staff to serve us in French! We want Canada to be a united country because otherwise, if Québec becomes independent, the rest of Canada will stop having French as an official language and then we will not be able to sue for linguistic violations!

We love Canada to be united and we love flying with Air Canada 'cause we know that, after all, money matters and we know that it is still cheaper for Air Canada to NOT provide French services, even if it means loosing money once every three years in a single lawsuit for them! So Air Canada will keep violating the rules, we will find the English-only signs, we will sue them again and get the money and fly for free all the time with the money we won! By not providing French services, Air Canada will save so much money that it will be easily able for them to afford our next 22 complaints!"


Michel and Lynda Thibodeau have been suing Air Canada since 2009! They are my heroes!

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-man...rench-1.670316


Now I hope it's clear for you why they fly with Air Canada and not some other international airlines.



I personally love Michel and Lynda Thibodeau, I admire their attitude and I would do it exactly the same
when Michel and Lynda Thibodeau say something nice about Canada, this is Québécois shade - something that only The French, Nicki Minaj and Québécois can decipher.



and I didn't attack Acajack (which ryhmes by the way, I'm gonna release a hit single "Don't Attack Acajack!" - to be sold on Vinyl and iTunes on 1st October.) - I like Acajack, too, like all members here (it is mandatory by the City-Data rules to praise Acajack, so I'll do it hereby) but I just wrote that Acajack is hubristic when he thinks that Jambo's perspective is the only skewed one, not realizing that every humang being is surrounded by like-minded people because the same personality and attitudes attract the same people and attitudes - wasn't that the key message of The Secret - an American pseudo-advice book that explains the universe. Byebye


Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
I agree with QuebecOpec that jambo101's views are more typical of the English Canadians you would meet in every day life.
merci yes, what Jambo wrote is essentially what the average Anglo-Canadian thinks and feels about Québec
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Québec
64 posts, read 32,682 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post
I like to hear that. Please, give them a referendum and let them kick Q out. It was wrong for only Q to have a referendum, the referendum should have been held nation-wide so that the other provinces can kick out Q.
Anything that moves us closer to immediate and unilateral independence is a positive!


Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post
I'm glad that the ling. ex. of the Q. gov. worked so well, they succeeded in what they were supposed to achieve, unfortunately in these days they do not work so well anymore = too many Anglos stay.
That's OK, there are a variety of new measures which can be implemented in Quebec. The Anglo population is only like half of what it used to be before the great achievements of the 70's like Bill 101.

From what I have seen on English Canadian T.V. reports I think it is 2/3 Anglos in QC want to leave QC at first opportunity.

We are still doing a good job and making good progress and we can build on these successes to achieve even more results.
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Old Yesterday, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post

Jambo's opinion is much more representative because he lives on the West Island and the West Island has the highest concentration of contacts with Anglo-Canada, so he knows what Anglo-Canadians think of Q. While Acajack lives in a Unity Bubble that only is representative of the Greater Ottawa Region, Jambo lives in the real world where Anglos would like Québec to say goodbye to Canada forever.


West Island anglos are representative of Anglo-Canadians in general across the country? And West Island anglos would like Quebec to say goodbye to Canada forever? Have you ever even spoken to West Island anglos? They're the biggest pro-Canada crowd there is. They most definitely DO NOT want Quebec to separate from Canada, as they're anglos living *in Quebec* and are deathly afraid of losing Canadian citizenship and all of their privileges under that scenario.


Yes, some of them have the pie-in-the-sky dream of partitioning Montreal and having that rump remain with Canada while the rest of Quebec separates, but that's a very remote Plan B (in addition to being legally unworkable) compared to Plan A which is preserving the status quo with all of Quebec in Canada.


Anglo-Canadians outside Quebec are much more passive about the issue than West Islanders. I mean, how could they not be? They have far less at stake.


But as Nat and I have said (note that Nat's views basically echo mine), most people in the ROC don't really get why Quebec might want to go, would rather Quebec not go, but if Quebec does want to go won't come crying on Quebec's doorstep with flowers to beg us to stay.


Jambo is only representative of a tiny minority of frustrated veterans of political and linguistic wars who have given up the fight out of fatigue and say "enough already! may as well separate since things can't be my way!" (I would add that Jambo is relatively unique in this, because most Anglo-Quebecers who feel this way, are actually *former* Anglo-Quebecers, and no longer living in the province. Some might say that Jambo's view is akin to sawing off the branch one is sitting on.)


I can assure you that the vast majority of anglos on the West Island and in Quebec in general DO NOT feel that way.
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Old Yesterday, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post
; and a place where there are more Anglos that have a good opinion on Québec because that is what they are automatically institutionally told to have and people adopt the opinion of the institutions they work in; .

You think anglos in the Ottawa area have an overwhelmingly positive view of Quebec? You should listen to their open line radio stations and read the comments section of their newspapers.


Have you ever tried to get service in French from your average private business in Ottawa? Most of the time the response is not just indicative of lack of knowledge of French, it's outright defiance. As in... how dare you speak to me in French?


My wife and I and most of our friends here in Gatineau suspect that many Ottawa businesses actually deliberately go out of their way to not have service (via bilingual employees) and signage in French.


Just to make a point.


All of this is either directly or indirectly related to attitudes towards Quebec (yes, right across the river from them), which I may or may not get into depending on where the discussion goes.


Attitudes in the border areas with Quebec are not necessarily favourable simply by virtue of being right at the border. It also depends on demographics. Far eastern Ontario (around Hawkesbury) is generally more Quebec-friendly as are northern parts of New Brunswick due to these areas being mainly francophone and so there is quite a bit of common ground between locals and Québécois.


Areas like Ottawa and northeastern Ontario are less friendly and accommodating in my experience. These areas do have francophones living there but they are smaller minorities and their "character" is very predominantly anglophone.
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Old Yesterday, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post
Jambo surrounds himself with like-minded people, but so do you, too, Acajack and Natnasci also.
Jambo's frame of reference is no more skewed in its angle than yours.

I think Jambo's statements are MOST REPRESENTATIVE.
Acajack is much less representative than Jambo because Acajack lives in a cross-border-bilingual-region that heavily depends on federal Ottawa jobs, meaning that Acajack lives in a place where the feeling of Canadian unity is the strongest, a place where there is the highest percentage of pro-Canadian francophones; and a place where there are more Anglos that have a good opinion on Québec because that is what they are automatically institutionally told to have and people adopt the opinion of the institutions they work in; Acajack lives in the city that VOTED with the highest number of NO votes against independence, while the rest of Q is much different.
rever.

Still with Natnasci and I. Nat lives almost as far as possible from Quebec as you can get while still being in Canada. He lives in what is arguably the only province that doesn't have a historic late 19th/early 20th century francophone community (Maillardville is a bit of stretch). His perspective from Vancouver is as non-Bilingual Belt as you can get.


As for me, I've lived in 5 provinces and grew up outside Quebec until my mid-20s. I've said this before: I went to school in English and was socialized as anglo in many ways. I still have a large "legacy" group of friends and acquaintances from that period. Most of them are not in Ottawa BTW.


My siblings and my wife's are all married to anglo ROCers. Some of them live in the Ottawa area and some of them do not. None of them are originally from the Ottawa area. Most are Greater GTA types though some are from other parts of the country.


Some of them have obnoxious, negative attitudes towards francophones and Quebec, and some of them don't.


But none of them want Quebec to separate. Those who have negative attitudes simply want Quebec to "fall into line", and stay.


In my extended family which is quite large we also have branches in the ROC who have become totally anglo in the past 2-3 generations. They live all over the place. Some of them rant about Quebec and French on occasion (even though it's part of their heritage, at least on one side) but again, they all want Quebec to stay.


They don't want Quebec to separate, they want it to let the Energy East pipeline through the province, allow more English in everyday life, take part in the mourning of the deceased singer from The Tragically Hip, etc...


At least in their minds, there is no contradiction in any of this.
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Old Yesterday, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
Acajack's views are the most easily digested for anglo Canadians & Americans. That's OK but his views are very skewed in a Quebec perspective. Most Quebecois do not live in a place nearly as united in English vs. French as Acajack (Ottawa). .
As I mentioned already, I don't think Ottawa-Gatineau is as united as some people think. But I'd also add that I have not really addressed Québécois views of Canada recently.


So I don't know how I could be misrepresenting anything given that I haven't said much about it.


But now I will.


I do think many Québécois across the province are more at peace with being part of Canada than they used to be. The anger and bitterness that was felt by much of Quebec's population from the 60s into the 90s (including here in the Outaouais to some degree) has become the domain of a fairly small minority.


I've alluded to this in the past though maybe not recently, but Quebec's position in Canada is something that most people have a passive acceptance about. It's an old, comfy jacket. You don't really get excited about it, you might like a new one, but for the moment you don't see the need to change it.
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Old Yesterday, 07:45 AM
 
34,868 posts, read 42,080,403 times
Reputation: 30260
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post




merci yes, what Jambo wrote is essentially what the average Anglo-Canadian thinks and feels about Québec
Well on a discussion forum like this one some one has to express the contrary viewpoint i express about Quebec ,i'm just surprized more people dont speak up with similar viewpoints but alas i guess i'm the only one who feels this way or at least airs that opinion of Quebec on this forum. enjoy ,we are having fun..
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Old Yesterday, 08:07 AM
 
493 posts, read 185,874 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
West Island anglos are representative of Anglo-Canadians in general across the country? And West Island anglos would like Quebec to say goodbye to Canada forever?

Jambo is only representative of a tiny minority of frustrated veterans of political and linguistic wars who have given up the fight out of fatigue and say "enough already! may as well separate since things can't be my way!" (I would add that Jambo is relatively unique in this, because most Anglo-Quebecers who feel this way, are actually *former* Anglo-Quebecers, and no longer living in the province. Some might say that Jambo's view is akin to sawing off the branch one is sitting on.)

I can assure you that the vast majority of anglos on the West Island and in Quebec in general DO NOT feel that way.
If you carefully read my sentence, you will know this is not about what West Island Anglos want, it is about how The Rest of Canada feels after having consulted the feelings of the Anglos from île de Montréal. What ROC thinks of Q is basically shaped on the experiences that Anglos make there. And that the ROC hears are complaints, complaints and more complaints. This is the reason why they think that Q mistreats Anglos and therefore they want Q to get out of C.


"Jambo's opinion is much more representative because he lives on the West Island and the West Island has the highest concentration of contacts with Anglo-Canada, so he knows what Anglo-Canadians think of Q"


As long as these Anglos are in Q, of course they want Canada to be united for exactly the same reasons as you listed, but they do not want it to be united for the sake of loving Canada's bilingual culture, but for their very own selfish reasons...They want C to be united, as you said, because they want to continue to have ther special exclusive Anglos rights protected by Ottawa - because they have no intention to ever truly live in a real French environment which compromises the actual idea of unity.
For them Canadian unity simply is = living as anglo in Q as in Ontario.

That doesn't change the fact that they dislike Q and once they leave Q, they also want to kick out Q out of C just like the ROC also wants.


+ Jambo is not unique in this. Whenever I read the comment section of the Anglo press, 80% are negative atittudes towards Québec and support throwing them out of Canada. What Jambo writes is representative for all of Anglo-Canada.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You think anglos in the Ottawa area have an overwhelmingly positive view of Quebec? You should listen to their open line radio stations and read the comments section of their newspapers.

They don't like Q but unlike the ROC they do not want to throw Québec out because it will have negative implications for them, such as the possibility of moving the capital to another city in Central ROC which would turn Ottawa into an irrelevant city. Ottawa anglos only support the idea of Canadian unity, so that they can feel as the role model centre of Canada...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post

my wife's are all married to anglo ROCers.
how many wifes do you have?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
As I mentioned already, I don't think Ottawa-Gatineau is as united as some people think. But I'd also add that I have not really addressed Québécois views of Canada recently.



Ottawa-Gatineau is BY FAR and by a large margin the MOST PRO-CANADIAN UNITY region in all of Canada and the only one!

Here you have a scientific source from Univeristé Montréal:


https://pum.umontreal.ca/apqc/95_96/...y/drouilly.htm


NO WHERE ELSE IN QUÉBEC DID FRANCOPHONES VOTE MORE AGAINST INDEPENDENCE THAN IN THE GATINEAU REGION (OUTAOUAIS)! A Gatineau francophone is even TWICE as likely to be in against independence than a Montréal francophone!!!!

Gatineau is BY far the most pro-Canadian city! And all people from there have a high probability to support Canadian unity just like you! But it is very different from the rest of Q! As you can see, Gatineau is the only region in all of Q where only a minority of francophones supports Québec independence!

Without Gatineau, Québec would have become independent!

Gatineau betrayed and destroyed all of Québec dreams..
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Old Yesterday, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,327 posts, read 27,776,064 times
Reputation: 8731
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post


how many wifes do you have?

I only have one. Hence the use of "wife's".


If I had multiple wives I would have referred to "my wives' siblings"...
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