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Old Yesterday, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,504 posts, read 27,966,532 times
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Even since modernrebel made this post...


Quote:
Originally Posted by modernrebel View Post
Canada copies everything from the US because we traded the UK for the US as the 'mother country'. Everywhere except Quebec and Newfoundland, that is. Many Canadians have the proverbial 'chip on the shoulder'.
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I have been thinking about how the US's influence on Canada (and especially Anglo-Canada) is often brought up and is the focus of heated debate.


Perhaps one of the reasons for the constant haranguing over this is that it's being framed in the wrong way?


I mean, the way it's usually approached is that the US and Canada are supposed to be entities that are relatively foreign to each other, a kind of ying vs. yang opposition. Canada exists precisely because it didn't want to be like the US. And yet paradoxically it has become extremely similar to the US over time, and the evolution suggests growing integration, in a three steps forward, one step back kind of way.


But what if we think of the US as Canada's Mother Country? Or at least as a country that plays the Mother Country role for Canada? (The latter point being a concession to the fact that we may not have come into this relationship in the way that these things normally happen.)


Then the fascination with and mimicking of goings-on in the US, be they cultural, political, societal, etc. suddenly makes a lot more sense.


Even if on an institutional level, Canada certainly has British as opposed to American foundations - though the US's foundations are also British. They're just more distant than ours.


But even our institutions have slowly evolved and continue to evolve subtly towards more American norms in many cases. Just look at how our constitutional framework has become more American-style with a codified document and a Supreme Court that rules on the constitutionality of laws and such.


I know that one of the counter-arguments will be that it's actually a two-way relationship and that we "share" this stuff with the US, but the "traffic" and "gaze" figuratively speaking is overwhelmingly in one direction. Americans overwhelmingly don't think they "share" Hollywood with us. Hollywood is theirs and if we're good enough to make it there is a place for us there just like there is for Brits, Aussies or Croatians.


And all of the talk of Canada's influence in the US (which does exist) does not contradict the Mother Country theory. It's very common for the "colonies" (for lack of a better term ) to contribute to the culture of the Mother Country.

Last edited by Acajack; Yesterday at 08:32 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 08:56 AM
 
2,607 posts, read 2,251,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Even since modernrebel made this post...





I have been thinking about how the US's influence on Canada (and especially Anglo-Canada) is often brought up and is the focus of heated debate.


Perhaps one of the reasons for the constant haranguing over this is that it's being framed in the wrong way?


I mean, the way it's usually approached is that the US and Canada are supposed to be entities that are relatively foreign to each other, a kind of ying vs. yang opposition. Canada exists precisely because it didn't want to be like the US. And yet paradoxically it has become extremely similar to the US over time, and the evolution suggests growing integration, in a three steps forward, one step back kind of way.


But what if we think of the US as Canada's Mother Country? Or at least as a country that plays the Mother Country role for Canada? (The latter point being a concession to the fact that we may not have come into this relationship in the way that these things normally happen.)


Then the fascination with and mimicking of goings-on in the US, be they cultural, political, societal, etc. suddenly makes a lot more sense.


Even if on an institutional level, Canada certainly has British as opposed to American foundations - though the US's foundations are also British. They're just more distant than ours.


But even our institutions have slowly evolved and continue to evolve subtly towards more American norms in many cases. Just look at how our constitutional framework has become more American-style with a codified document and a Supreme Court that rules on the constitutionality of laws and such.


I know that one of the counter-arguments will be that it's actually a two-way relationship and that we "share" this stuff with the US, but the "traffic" and "gaze" figuratively speaking is overwhelmingly in one direction. Americans overwhelmingly don't think they "share" Hollywood with us. Hollywood is theirs and if we're good enough to make it there is a place for us there just like there is for Brits, Aussies or Croatians.


And all of the talk of Canada's influence in the US (which does exist) does not contradict the Mother Country theory. It's very common for the "colonies" (for lack of a better term ) to contribute to the culture of the Mother Country.
Isn't this a very outdated late 19th century colonial concept? Why are we applying it to two distinct 21st century sovereign states? You mentioned cultural influence, but what about military, political, foreign affairs? Typically in a 19th century mother-to-colony relationship, the most overarching aspect of that relationship is the mother country's influence and overt control over local politics (via direct or indirect political appointments), and direct control over military and foreign affairs (e.g. China's control over Hong Kong and Macau's military, security, and foreign affairs).

There are many cases where one country's cultural influence can dwarf that of its neighbors, but that doesn't imply a "mother country" relationship. China's entertainment industry and history casts far longer shadows over current day Taiwan, but the Taiwanese are ever more adamant about demanding independence and drawing a clear line in the sand, regardless of that cultural affinity.
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Old Yesterday, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,504 posts, read 27,966,532 times
Reputation: 8800
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Isn't this a very outdated late 19th century colonial concept? Why are we applying it to two distinct 21st century sovereign states? You mentioned cultural influence, but what about military, political, foreign affairs? Typically in a 19th century mother-to-colony relationship, the most overarching aspect of that relationship is the mother country's influence and overt control over local politics (via direct or indirect political appointments), and direct control over military and foreign affairs (e.g. China's control over Hong Kong and Macau's military, security, and foreign affairs).

.

We're not really talking about the same thing. What you're describing is basically a puppet state. I am more focused on the cultural and societal, not so much on the geopolitical.
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Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,504 posts, read 27,966,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post

There are many cases where one country's cultural influence can dwarf that of its neighbors, but that doesn't imply a "mother country" relationship. China's entertainment industry and history casts far longer shadows over current day Taiwan, but the Taiwanese are ever more adamant about demanding independence and drawing a clear line in the sand, regardless of that cultural affinity.
Regardless of the political sensitivities, it can't be disputed that China is Taiwan's Mother Country.
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM
 
2,607 posts, read 2,251,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
We're not really talking about the same thing. What you're describing is basically a puppet state. I am more focused on the cultural and societal, not so much on the geopolitical.
Hong Kong and Macau aren't "puppet states" of China - they are special administrative regions that are distinct within the People's Republic of China - their mother country (in fact the term "mother country" is explicitly used in their founding documents and Basic Law constitution).
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Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,504 posts, read 27,966,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Hong Kong and Macau aren't "puppet states" of China - they are special administrative regions that are distinct within the People's Republic of China - their mother country (in fact the term "mother country" is explicitly used in their founding documents and Basic Law constitution).
I wasn't talking about Macau and Hong Kong specifically. But about the administrative and governance relationships you referenced. I am fully aware and recognize that Canada is (almost ) totally sovereign from the U.S. when it comes to this stuff. OK, joke aside, yeah we make all our own decisions.


And I am also aware that Macau and Hong Kong are "part" of China. They're not puppet states and they're not colonies.
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Old Yesterday, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Montreal
492 posts, read 304,719 times
Reputation: 393
Yes, the U.S. is anglo Canada's mother country.

I am glad Taiwan is mentioned.

This is because Taiwan was founded by Chinese people leaving China just like anglo Canada was founded by the 'loyalists' leaving the newly founded American republic.

If China is Taiwan's mother country, an indisputable fact, then logic dictates that anglo Canada's mother country is the U.S.

Acajack makes a good point that they become more American as time moves forward.

We must remember that anglo Canada did start off as a rejection of "American" ideals such as the expansion of the vote and representation for ordinary people and a democratic system.

Ironically anglo Canadians would consider these very Canadian ideals today, even going so far to boast that anglo Canada may embody these ideals more than the modern U.S. does.

Of course these truths will not be popular with many of our anglo Canadians neighbours, but that doesn't make them any less true.
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,504 posts, read 27,966,532 times
Reputation: 8800
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
Yes, the U.S. is anglo Canada's mother country.

I am glad Taiwan is mentioned.

This is because Taiwan was founded by Chinese people leaving China just like anglo Canada was founded by the 'loyalists' leaving the newly founded American republic.

If China is Taiwan's mother country, an indisputable fact, then logic dictates that anglo Canada's mother country is the U.S.

.

It's almost like a case of mistaken identity, driven by the maintaining of the monarchical ties to the UK.


But when you think about it, except for Newfoundland, British "stuff" and people initially arrived in this part of the world mostly from the south, not from the east. Even the monarchy was something that the U.S. had, that they jettisoned, and that was transported to Canada so that it could live on on North American soil.


Early British settlement and military incursions into what was then primarily French controlled territory mostly came from the south as well, prior to and during the milestone events which were the Treaty of Paris (1763) and the American Declaration of Independence (1776).


The Loyalists, who were eventually outnumbered by people coming directly from the British Isles, and later from all over the world, nonetheless laid almost all of the groundwork and set the tone for the Anglo-Canadian society that would eventually spread from that Atlantic to the Pacific.
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Old Yesterday, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,976 posts, read 64,058,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Regardless of the political sensitivities, it can't be disputed that China is Taiwan's Mother Country.
But wan't Taiwan really founded by the USA? More specifically by the guy who used to live down the street from me?

Val de Beausset

Last edited by Coldjensens; Yesterday at 03:38 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,815 posts, read 9,693,406 times
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Canada was created through gene splicing.
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