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That's too sensible for TrueDope and Ford to understand.
Well, "TrueDope" is the Prime Minister of Canada, and since Canada's federal government has no jurisdiction over roads (they being provincial jurisdiction), he has nothing to do with provincial highways. So, Mr. Trudeau, to give him his proper name, cannot be faulted for Ontario's roads.
Doug Ford, being Premier of Ontario, can; but he is limited by Ontario's geography. It took a lot to blast what road there is through the Canadian Shield in the 1960s, and I'm not kidding about blasting. If you've ever driven that road, as I have, you'll note the many rock cuts that were blasted to allow even a two-lane road. Expanding that to a four-lane Interstate-quality road would be prohibitively expensive, and would not benefit the majority of Ontarians who would end up paying for it.
Why? Because the vast majority of taxpaying Ontarians live in southern Ontario, have no need to go north of Lake Superior, and would not like their tax dollars going towards a public project that they would never use.
In short, it's neither Trudeau nor Ford that prevents expandening/widening the route north of Superior. It's Ontario's geography, and any road's usefulness towards the people who would pay for it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons
Is speed always the most important thing, though? If it is, why would I drive? I can fly from Toronto to Vancouver in five hours. Beats the heck out of 40 hours on I-90, and Air Canada serves drinks in-flight.
As far as the driving alternative, the novelty of Ontario from Sudbury to Kenora wears off fast.
Well, "TrueDope" is the Prime Minister of Canada, and since Canada's federal government has no jurisdiction over roads (they being provincial jurisdiction), he has nothing to do with provincial highways. So, Mr. Trudeau, to give him his proper name, cannot be faulted for Ontario's roads.
Interesting. In the US, the Interstate System was conceived by President Eisenhower who was so enamored by the German Reichsautobahn that he requested for a similar unified system. Individual states own the Interstate Highway sections within their respective borders but the Federal Government funds for much of the construction and upkeep. Interstate Highways have to meet certain high quality standards too and almost all have controlled limited access. I'm surprised that Canada has not adopted a similar system but then it might be difference in governance and your aforementioned reason of cost.
The point is that Point Roberts doesn't provide any conveniences to Canadians, let alone to the American residents other than them being American citizens living on American territory. It makes sense that they'd want the little Point Roberts peninsula tip to stay part of USA though, who could blame them?
Pond Gap makes good points, especially the fact that it is indeed illegal for any part of the US to secede without our Federal Government's OK so Point Roberts and Angle Inlet cannot break off by themselves. Still, like everything else, both the US and Canada can cooperate and negotiate to arrange something like mandatory dual citizenship for residents of both exclaves and residents would pay select taxes to both nations. Heck, something like that could also be applied to the residents of Derby Line, VT because they share water and other resources with Stanstead, QC.
On the flip side, no mention has been made about Campobello Island, that other strangely arranged exclave that is owned by Canada and whose residents are Canadian citizens but houses the Roosevelt Campobello International Park that was frequented by American tourists before the pandemic.
Interesting. In the US, the Interstate System was conceived by President Eisenhower who was so enamored by the German Reichsautobahn that he requested for a similar unified system. Individual states own the Interstate Highway sections within their respective borders but the Federal Government funds for much of the construction and upkeep. Interstate Highways have to meet certain high quality standards too and almost all have controlled limited access. I'm surprised that Canada has not adopted a similar system but then it might be difference in governance and your aforementioned reason of cost.
I'd love for the Trans-Canada to be four divided lanes (at least) from coast to coast but with lots of transportation needs everywhere and only so much money to go around it makes sense to establish priorities and if that means new roads in the Toronto area where population is growing and the system is stressed, then so be it.
I'd hate to see governments spend money on nice-to-haves just to say "we did it" while ignoring more critical stuff that has an impact on more people's lives.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
That's too sensible for TrueDope and Ford to understand.
Why? Because the vast majority of taxpaying Ontarians live in southern Ontario, have no need to go north of Lake Superior, and would not like their tax dollars going towards a public project that they would never use.
In short, it's neither Trudeau nor Ford that prevents expanding/widening the route north of Superior. It's Ontario's geography, and any road's usefulness towards the people who would pay for it.
What I am advocating is not building a road that would be prohibitively expensive to build and, even if built to maintain. One of the significant decisions to be made when building the Canadian Pacific railroad was whether to do the "all-Canadian" route over the top of Superior or take a dip through the U.S. For reasons of national pride of an infant nation the all-Canadian route was chosen. In addition as you stated in the 1960's a road was built; building it to interstate quality was not done.
What can and should be done is to allow the road version of a dip through the U.S. That means reopening the border. Perhaps a recent negative Covid test or a vaccination should be required.
What I am advocating is not building a road that would be prohibitively expensive to build and, even if built to maintain. One of the significant decisions to be made when building the Canadian Pacific railroad was whether to do the "all-Canadian" route over the top of Superior or take a dip through the U.S. For reasons of national pride of an infant nation the all-Canadian route was chosen. In addition as you stated in the 1960's a road was built; building it to interstate quality was not done.
Where did you learn that? I was always taught that it was first built in accordance with the most sensible and practical geographical allowances - not for the purpose of flaunting national pride.
I'd think that flaunting one's own national pride by means of a physical intrusion into some other country's territory and then back again (if it was even allowed) would be the height of arrogance and would be resented by the people whose country is being intruded upon.
As it is now the CPR does have several routes that extend south into USA but it's for shipping goods, not for carrying passengers. Here's a picture of their rail map:
......What can and should be done is to allow the road version of a dip through the U.S. That means reopening the border. Perhaps a recent negative Covid test or a vaccination should be required.
Perhaps I'm not comprehending what you're getting at, but .....Why do that? What practical purpose would that serve to either country when it isn't necessary?
If Canada got approval from the USA to do that then USA would insist on tit for tat and demand to do the same thing in Canada. I think that would be a bad idea.
If it's allowed even once then when and where would such intrusions end before there is no longer a real border to maintain?
What I am advocating is not building a road that would be prohibitively expensive to build and, even if built to maintain. One of the significant decisions to be made when building the Canadian Pacific railroad was whether to do the "all-Canadian" route over the top of Superior or take a dip through the U.S. For reasons of national pride of an infant nation the all-Canadian route was chosen. In addition as you stated in the 1960's a road was built; building it to interstate quality was not done.
What can and should be done is to allow the road version of a dip through the U.S. That means reopening the border. Perhaps a recent negative Covid test or a vaccination should be required.
VIA Canada used to have a train service, The Atlantic, that went through Maine from Quebec to New Brunswick. Even in pre-pandemic times, I bet that was a shaky operation to have to cut through someone else's property, which was probably why they dropped the service. I cannot imagine having to cut through my neighbor's lawn each time I want to go somewhere. A paved highway is even worse than a railroad because you don't have things like trackage rights and a highway is far more difficult to secure and maintain. That adds support to my original argument for this thread that no country's people ought to have to traverse through another country to go to another part of their own country.
BTW you seem to be obsessed with a border reopening. I get that you probably think the US and Canada ought to have a Schengen Area like agreement but our borders are too vast for such a thing, which is another reason why our pene-exclaves make no sense. The border will reopen eventually but even after that our neighbors to the north are not going to bow to our whims.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite
Where did you learn that? I was always taught that it was first built in accordance with the most sensible and practical geographical allowances - not for the purpose of flaunting national pride.
I'd think that flaunting one's own national pride by means of a physical intrusion into some other country's territory and then back again (if it was even allowed) would be the height of arrogance and would be resented by the people whose country is being intruded upon.
Presumably it would have been by agreement. If I remember correctly, having read the book in February 2020, part of the construction was facilitated by traversing American territory in Minnesota and/or North Dakota.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite
As it is now the CPR does have several routes that extend south into USA but it's for shipping goods, not for carrying passengers. Here's a picture of their rail map:
Is that still happening during the pandemic or do they change crews at the border?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite
If Canada got approval from the USA to do that then USA would insist on tit for tat and demand to do the same thing in Canada. I think that would be a bad idea. If it's allowed even once then when and where would such intrusions end before there is no longer a real border to maintain?
Isn't that how the Alaska Highway works? Other than that excuse my ignorance about Canada. The U.S.-Canadian border's openness over the years has been unique among national borders and generally quite beneficial to all sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant
BTW you seem to be obsessed with a border reopening. I get that you probably think the US and Canada ought to have a Schengen Area like agreement but our borders are too vast for such a thing, which is another reason why our pene-exclaves make no sense. The border will reopen eventually but even after that our neighbors to the north are not going to bow to our whims.
Obsession would be the wrong word. I am a big believer in reopening. Our office in White Plains has been going full blast since last June.
...... a highway is far more difficult to secure and maintain. That adds support to my original argument for this thread that no country's people ought to have to traverse through another country to go to another part of their own country......
No American has to traverse through Canadian territory to get to another part of their own country. The people who live permanently or own vacation properties in those tiny sections of American territories that are surrounded by Canadian territory do so by personal choice, it's not because they are required to live there and/or own their properties there. And if they traverse through Canada to get to and from them they do that by personal choice too, not because there is no other means to access them. They do their traversing through Canada by courtesy of Canada, not because Canada is required to let them through.
Have you ever heard of tiny Hyder on the far south-east coast of the Alaska panhandle? It has less than 100 population and gets all its public and emergency services like police and medical services and utilities like electricity and phone services from Stewart right next door in British Columbia. Whenever there are less than 10 school children in Hyder those kids have to go to the school in Stewart because Alaska is unable to provide a teacher in Hyder for less than 10 children. Stewart has the only road that goes through BC to other roads that eventually connect to Alaska and to other parts of BC so any supplies that can't be brought into Hyder by float plane or boat will come by truck through BC to get to Stewart and thence to Hyder. Likewise, the people of Hyder can leave there by float plane or boats but if they want to travel out of Hyder by road they have to go through BC to get to wherever they're going.
ALL of the support services that Hyder gets from Canada is by the good fellowship and compassionate courtesy of Canada, not because it's a requirement. Hyder and Stewart may as well be one town in Canada because Hyder is so connected and dependent on Stewart's people and services for their survival but the two towns have worked out solutions that work for them as separate entities.
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