U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-21-2022, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
17,522 posts, read 13,261,072 times
Reputation: 10960

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
[QUOTE]
I also think that in Farsoud's case, it was a dramatized cry for help and I doubt he would have been allowed to be euthanized. I also agree that the title of the article is dramatized but the premise behind the article about consent is still meaningful enough. These are real cases and real people, not something made up out of whole cloth.

Take the mentally ill as an example. As the article states: Consent, especially under the kind of pressure inherent in situations like these, is a weak and malleable thing. And look where we are with that.

Then take the case of the army veteran https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/princ...ling-1.6560136

Then we have health care workers bringing up euthanasia, something that IMO, should never happen.

I agree that there will always be wrinkles to iron out in any law, but in the case of MAiD, those "wrinkles" are a matter of life and death.

My husband was as good as deaf and he often faked understanding what was being said to him. He was also a person of great public bravado, who would talk bigger than he was, and spoke as though death held no fear for him. He would talk himself into a corner and then not find his way out. In private, until the very end, he was deathly (excuse the pun) afraid of death.

What WAS being pushed hard by healthcare workers, for the last 6 years, was DNR - do not resuscitate. At one point he agreed to it, signed the form, only later to tell me about it, and he ended up taking back his consent.

In theory, there's nothing wrong with the DNRs but decisions are made by humans who are tired and who have no skin in the game. My husband would not, in these last six years, in fact wanted to be resuscitated if he had a major stroke or heart attack nor would I ever have allowed them to go on to no good purpose.

The last time when the EMTs pressed for their DNR and asked me why he wouldn't give consent, I told them it was because he trusted me more than them when it came to knowing it was over. One of the homecare palliative nurses asked whether he had a DNR and I said he had had, but he changed his mind as he had not understood what it meant. She sighed and said it was common that they pushed their DNRs without making sure the patient understood what it meant.

I can think of lots of scenarios in which euthanasia would be merciful. I can think of lots of situations in which it would be abused. I do not believe there wouldn't be coercion.

But I have a lot to do these days. There are other points I haven't gotten around to making and probably won't.[/quote]

I agree that healthcare workers should not pushing MAID, and it should be punishable since it goes against the rules of MAID and outside influence. This case has brought this to light, and hopefully changes.

The people I know of, made their decisions on their own, and were quite aware of being able to back out at anytime. Their pain was insufferable, and one of them really only had another 2 or so weeks to live. He wanted out.

As for DNR's everyone should have that conversation with a loved one while they can. I am SO glad that I had it with my mother while she was able to. It was not pushed onto me. I was given options for her to choose, including of course, resuscitation. Not knowing what she wanted would have been torture.

We have had MAID now since June of 2016. With these two stories, if they are common, I would expect to hear more of them. If abuse is rife, then now is the time they will come out.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-21-2022, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,690 posts, read 13,989,106 times
Reputation: 4558
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I don't feel like looking up the link, but there was another guy mentioned, paralyzed in some way, and there is a recording of a nurse bringing up euthanasia as an option. Also, in some link it was mentioned that in Europe it is not allowed for health care workers to bring up euthanasia but in Canada it is. And the hospital involved in the Canadian man admitted that it was brought up inappropriately to this particular paralyzed man.

I can totally see how someone without an advocate would feel pressured under those circumstances.

As far as pain control is concerned, the last day of his life my husband was in a lot of pain. He was home until then. The hospital asked me whether I wanted them to run a bunch of tests to find out what was wrong, or make him comfortable. I said make him comfortable, even though I knew that would lower his blood pressure further to an inevitable outcome. But he had so many things wrong with him, it made no difference what the cause of his pain was. I don't believe they gave him any more pain relief than what was needed. On admission, it turned out not to be enough and they later increased it.
Another great point on the potential ethical pitfalls. It is all the stories we don't hear about that worries me about this more than some of the few..

My thoughts continue to be with you Netwit. It is good to see you posting!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2022, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,757 posts, read 8,271,225 times
Reputation: 9428
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Another great point on the potential ethical pitfalls. It is all the stories we don't hear about that worries me about this more than some of the few..

My thoughts continue to be with you Netwit. It is good to see you posting!
Thanks, fusion! It's been a struggle. I had been taking care of him so long and it was getting so hard that I think the stress of it all is hitting me right now. Then I took it a day, sometimes a minute, at a time.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2022, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,757 posts, read 8,271,225 times
Reputation: 9428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I also think that in Farsoud's case, it was a dramatized cry for help and I doubt he would have been allowed to be euthanized. I also agree that the title of the article is dramatized but the premise behind the article about consent is still meaningful enough. These are real cases and real people, not something made up out of whole cloth.

Take the mentally ill as an example. As the article states: Consent, especially under the kind of pressure inherent in situations like these, is a weak and malleable thing. And look where we are with that.

Then take the case of the army veteran https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/princ...ling-1.6560136

Then we have health care workers bringing up euthanasia, something that IMO, should never happen.

I agree that there will always be wrinkles to iron out in any law, but in the case of MAiD, those "wrinkles" are a matter of life and death.

My husband was as good as deaf and he often faked understanding what was being said to him. He was also a person of great public bravado, who would talk bigger than he was, and spoke as though death held no fear for him. He would talk himself into a corner and then not find his way out. In private, until the very end, he was deathly (excuse the pun) afraid of death.

What WAS being pushed hard by healthcare workers, for the last 6 years, was DNR - do not resuscitate. At one point he agreed to it, signed the form, only later to tell me about it, and he ended up taking back his consent.

In theory, there's nothing wrong with the DNRs but decisions are made by humans who are tired and who have no skin in the game. My husband would not, in these last six years, in fact wanted to be resuscitated if he had a major stroke or heart attack nor would I ever have allowed them to go on to no good purpose.

The last time when the EMTs pressed for their DNR and asked me why he wouldn't give consent, I told them it was because he trusted me more than them when it came to knowing it was over. One of the homecare palliative nurses asked whether he had a DNR and I said he had had, but he changed his mind as he had not understood what it meant. She sighed and said it was common that they pushed their DNRs without making sure the patient understood what it meant.

I can think of lots of scenarios in which euthanasia would be merciful. I can think of lots of situations in which it would be abused. I do not believe there wouldn't be coercion.

But I have a lot to do these days. There are other points I haven't gotten around to making and probably won't.
I agree that healthcare workers should not pushing MAID, and it should be punishable since it goes against the rules of MAID and outside influence. This case has brought this to light, and hopefully changes.

The people I know of, made their decisions on their own, and were quite aware of being able to back out at anytime. Their pain was insufferable, and one of them really only had another 2 or so weeks to live. He wanted out.

As for DNR's everyone should have that conversation with a loved one while they can. I am SO glad that I had it with my mother while she was able to. It was not pushed onto me. I was given options for her to choose, including of course, resuscitation. Not knowing what she wanted would have been torture.

We have had MAID now since June of 2016. With these two stories, if they are common, I would expect to hear more of them. If abuse is rife, then now is the time they will come out.
[/quote]


I wouldn't necessarily expect stories of abuse to be rife if they are people with no supportive friends or family.

I agree that DNRs should be brought up and explained thoroughly. Once. If the answer was no, then they shouldn't keep coming back to that question which is what happened on at least 3 occasions with my husband. When you are unwell, it's hard to think clearly and sometimes you agree to whatever the other person wants just to get them to shut up.

I found myself that way at the funeral home - agreeing to things just to get them to stop asking questions about what I wanted for the funeral. I knew I was doing it but I simply was too overwhelmed by everything; the death, condolence calls, visitors, people I needed to let know he was gone. It's not that the funeral home was upselling me, it was just all too much. It took 2 1/2 hours at the funeral home, and maybe 10 minutes involved picking out a casket.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2022, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
17,522 posts, read 13,261,072 times
Reputation: 10960
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I agree that healthcare workers should not pushing MAID, and it should be punishable since it goes against the rules of MAID and outside influence. This case has brought this to light, and hopefully changes.

The people I know of, made their decisions on their own, and were quite aware of being able to back out at anytime. Their pain was insufferable, and one of them really only had another 2 or so weeks to live. He wanted out.

As for DNR's everyone should have that conversation with a loved one while they can. I am SO glad that I had it with my mother while she was able to. It was not pushed onto me. I was given options for her to choose, including of course, resuscitation. Not knowing what she wanted would have been torture.

We have had MAID now since June of 2016. With these two stories, if they are common, I would expect to hear more of them. If abuse is rife, then now is the time they will come out.

I wouldn't necessarily expect stories of abuse to be rife if they are people with no supportive friends or family.

I agree that DNRs should be brought up and explained thoroughly. Once. If the answer was no, then they shouldn't keep coming back to that question which is what happened on at least 3 occasions with my husband. When you are unwell, it's hard to think clearly and sometimes you agree to whatever the other person wants just to get them to shut up.

I found myself that way at the funeral home - agreeing to things just to get them to stop asking questions about what I wanted for the funeral. I knew I was doing it but I simply was too overwhelmed by everything; the death, condolence calls, visitors, people I needed to let know he was gone. It's not that the funeral home was upselling me, it was just all too much. It took 2 1/2 hours at the funeral home, and maybe 10 minutes involved picking out a casket.[/quote]

Maybe it works differently in BC?

DNR forms contained everything from what type of state you didn't want DNR to what you didn't, including full resuscitation.

Once signed, it was only brought up again to me, when my mother was near her end.

Sorry you were so overwhelmed. It certainly is a difficult time to go through.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top