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Old 12-03-2022, 09:16 AM
 
22,925 posts, read 14,208,843 times
Reputation: 16962

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HodgePodge View Post
Agreed. Mojo obviously has no inkling on finances, taxation, cost of ownership, etc.

I can see the upper incomes starting @ $100K, but to assume that a majority population makes that much and above is a bit optimistic.

Let's not even consider that a lot of young upper earners have huge student debts (and CC debt) to start off with.

Oh and how many young couples can scrap up the minimum down payment of $75,000 for a $1M starter home?

Property taxes, utilities, insurance, maintenance, fixing the roof, fixing the furnace... well you get it.

I'm just saying the the real estate market just doesn't make sense numbers wise. Logic flies out the window with prices where they are.


In support of your opinion:

Just look at these sites to glean who and how many are now paying the price for having gone with the easy mortgages and took the plunge, only to find making the payments formed too large a chunk of their available income.

https://bank-foreclosures.ca/foreclo...es-in-ontario/

https://toronto.realestatebay.ca/power-of-sale.htm

https://www.kijiji.ca/b-house-for-sa.../k0c35l1700272

So, of course we should all think Ford's stupid decision to allow developers to evade all the normal restrictions, that did little to protect the younger consumer in the first place as ultimately improving on this nonsense??

These same young people will be the first to scream large about the loss of sustainable resources. Additional atomospheric Co2 levels with fewer trees to process it, ground water removal, along with all the other stuff that goes with removal of greenspace.

I cringe at the thought of the lawsuits coming out of the sale of these future biodegradable, cheaply erected but overpriced junk homes.

Whichever party forms the next provincial government; BEWARE.

Nevertheless, it will be ALL of us taxpayers of Ontario that will be the real losers because those sitting in the legislature won't pay a dime for their current intransigence!
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Old 12-04-2022, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,666 posts, read 13,972,896 times
Reputation: 4537
Quote:
Originally Posted by HodgePodge View Post
Agreed. Mojo obviously has no inkling on finances, taxation, cost of ownership, etc.

I can see the upper incomes starting @ $100K, but to assume that a majority population makes that much and above is a bit optimistic.

Let's not even consider that a lot of young upper earners have huge student debts (and CC debt) to start off with.

Oh and how many young couples can scrap up the minimum down payment of $75,000 for a $1M starter home?

Property taxes, utilities, insurance, maintenance, fixing the roof, fixing the furnace... well you get it.

I'm just saying the the real estate market just doesn't make sense numbers wise. Logic flies out the window with prices where they are.
Yeah the median income in Toronto is 75K per year but that factors in all ages. Younger people probably skew a bit more to the lower half. Sure there are breakouts and upper income one's but we are talking all of them, not just those doing well. 100K is simply an above average salary for any age group.

But yeah - if you are younger starting out your career in the 6 figure category already its almost assured you have some student load debt unless mom and dad paid for it. Then again, mom and dad helped with the downpayment and you are still left with a plus 5000 a month mortgage so still a struggle..


Its sad the predicament so many are in. Even renting just a modest apt will set them back over 2 grand a month.

Last edited by fusion2; 12-04-2022 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 12-04-2022, 11:01 PM
 
1,219 posts, read 363,653 times
Reputation: 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post


In support of your opinion:

Just look at these sites to glean who and how many are now paying the price for having gone with the easy mortgages and took the plunge, only to find making the payments formed too large a chunk of their available income.

https://bank-foreclosures.ca/foreclo...es-in-ontario/

https://toronto.realestatebay.ca/power-of-sale.htm

https://www.kijiji.ca/b-house-for-sa.../k0c35l1700272

So, of course we should all think Ford's stupid decision to allow developers to evade all the normal restrictions, that did little to protect the younger consumer in the first place as ultimately improving on this nonsense??

These same young people will be the first to scream large about the loss of sustainable resources. Additional atomospheric Co2 levels with fewer trees to process it, ground water removal, along with all the other stuff that goes with removal of greenspace.

I cringe at the thought of the lawsuits coming out of the sale of these future biodegradable, cheaply erected but overpriced junk homes.

Whichever party forms the next provincial government; BEWARE.

Nevertheless, it will be ALL of us taxpayers of Ontario that will be the real losers because those sitting in the legislature won't pay a dime for their current intransigence!
There should be an investigation into Doug Ford and his cronies...a major developer just happened to have bought up some the land in question only a couple of months ago,
sounds fishy to me.

It's a slippery slope ...once they let one chunk of the Green Belt be developed...
it's much easier to have other chunks be developed too...pretty soon you have
no Green Belt.

As for the OP's question "will the cost of homes go down in 2022?"....
the answer is not will...it's they have...there was a feeding frenzy in late 2021 and early 2022...bidding wars ....waving home inspections/restrictions ...buyers would pay to dolllar for anything on the market....been a sluggish market since then with prices down...at least 15% ...maybe more.

Last edited by GTB365; 12-04-2022 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 12-05-2022, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Sydney Australia
1,380 posts, read 833,884 times
Reputation: 2516
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Yeah the median income in Toronto is 75K per year but that factors in all ages. Younger people probably skew a bit more to the lower half. Sure there are breakouts and upper income one's but we are talking all of them, not just those doing well. 100K is simply an above average salary for any age group.

But yeah - if you are younger starting out your career in the 6 figure category already its almost assured you have some student load debt unless mom and dad paid for it. Then again, mom and dad helped with the downpayment and you are still left with a plus 5000 a month mortgage so still a struggle..


Its sad the predicament so many are in. Even renting just a modest apt will set them back over 2 grand a month.
The issues at play are global and as interest rates increase again around the globe, home prices stabilise and fall, as has happened here this year.

I would be surprised if many Canadian first home buyers did not have similar experiences to those in Australia, given all the demographic similarities. Here 60% apparently get assistance from parents and or grandparents and the average amount of assistance is something like $70,000. Many get a whole lot more than that.

Here interest rates are expected to stabilise next year and the drop in real estate prices is expected to slow and then start rising again.
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Old 12-05-2022, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,666 posts, read 13,972,896 times
Reputation: 4537
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaAnna View Post
The issues at play are global and as interest rates increase again around the globe, home prices stabilise and fall, as has happened here this year.

I would be surprised if many Canadian first home buyers did not have similar experiences to those in Australia, given all the demographic similarities. Here 60% apparently get assistance from parents and or grandparents and the average amount of assistance is something like $70,000. Many get a whole lot more than that.

Here interest rates are expected to stabilise next year and the drop in real estate prices is expected to slow and then start rising again.
I agree that there are a lot of similarities between Canada and Australia. Both are relying on immigration to fuel growth. While this has its benefits for the overall economies, it can put pressure on an alright tight housing market. It's a catch 22 as if we just relied on natural growth, our GDP's would be stagnant and actually lose steam. Canada is now aiming for half a million immigrants per year so we'll see how things go.

That all said, there are systemic issues with supply here. I get it that during the pandemic things got worse and there are supply chain issues, but this is just exacerbating a problem that already existed well before the pandemic.
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Old 12-05-2022, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Sydney Australia
1,380 posts, read 833,884 times
Reputation: 2516
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I agree that there are a lot of similarities between Canada and Australia. Both are relying on immigration to fuel growth. While this has its benefits for the overall economies, it can put pressure on an alright tight housing market. It's a catch 22 as if we just relied on natural growth, our GDP's would be stagnant and actually lose steam. Canada is now aiming for half a million immigrants per year so we'll see how things go.

That all said, there are systemic issues with supply here. I get it that during the pandemic things got worse and there are supply chain issues, but this is just exacerbating a problem that already existed well before the pandemic.
Yes, both countries have many immigrants from countries where it is very much the custom for extended families to work as a unit financially to help members buy property. This of course puts pressure on prices and makes it even more difficult for those whose families cannot or will not help them.

We have major supply issues too and it has been made worse by all our recent natural disasters which have bookended Covid. The damage in some rural areas from the fires three years ago has not been entirely repaired and there is an acute shortage of builders and accommodation in all the areas that have been flooded this year. A vicious circle as tradies cannot be brought in as there is nowhere for them to stay and in any case they are fully occupied in the cities.

Our immigration target is much lower than yours, which is interesting. Only 160,000. We have an acute labour shortage in some fields and areas (the shire where I live in Sydney has a current unemployment rate of less than 1%) but I think the shortage of housing and services means a lid has to be kept on it.
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Old 12-05-2022, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,666 posts, read 13,972,896 times
Reputation: 4537
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaAnna View Post
Yes, both countries have many immigrants from countries where it is very much the custom for extended families to work as a unit financially to help members buy property. This of course puts pressure on prices and makes it even more difficult for those whose families cannot or will not help them.

We have major supply issues too and it has been made worse by all our recent natural disasters which have bookended Covid. The damage in some rural areas from the fires three years ago has not been entirely repaired and there is an acute shortage of builders and accommodation in all the areas that have been flooded this year. A vicious circle as tradies cannot be brought in as there is nowhere for them to stay and in any case they are fully occupied in the cities.

Our immigration target is much lower than yours, which is interesting. Only 160,000. We have an acute labour shortage in some fields and areas (the shire where I live in Sydney has a current unemployment rate of less than 1%) but I think the shortage of housing and services means a lid has to be kept on it.
I'm not surprised that Canada is taking in more as its base population is 39 million vs Australia's 26 is million I believe. Still, proportionally we are taking in a significantly higher number as a percentage of our population. This will put even greater strain on the housing situation vs yours.

I think labour shortages in our countries is here to stay. A lot of boomers are retiring and the pandemic just acted as a catalyst for this. But again, these fires were burning before covid - it just fanned the flames greatly, as it did with so many issues that were close to the edge.

Sorry to hear about the natural disasters bookending covid down there. There are so many layered issues that are just working against us. I'll be ok as i'm getting closer to 50 than 40 lol - so i'm just sailing now but I really do feel bad for the younger generation. They are dealing with challenges I didn't have to.
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