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Old 11-18-2022, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,598 posts, read 4,397,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Was it a secret that China interfered in Canadian elections? Does the average Canadian know this, or is it the sort of Trump/Russia collusion that only about a third of the people believe?

I'm asking because a proven case of interference, if it exists, should be made known to the world, whereas an accusation is a different thing and should be kept quiet. You know, innocent until proven guilty and all that stuff....
FTR, I never heard the story at all until this week.
It’s no secret. It’s been known for several years. It made headlines again earlier this month. From an article dated Nov 8:

PM says foreign actors playing 'aggressive games' with Canadian democracy, institutions
Quote:
Trudeau was responding to a Global News story which reported that Canadian intelligence officials alerted him in January to a Chinese campaign of interference in the 2019 federal election.

Sources told Global a series of Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) briefing notes to the prime minister and several cabinet ministers said China covertly funded 11 candidates in the 2019 federal election. The sources told Global the briefings did not identify the candidates. The briefing notes further allege that China worked to get its agents employed in the offices of members of Parliament.
Subsequent to that, there was criticism about Trudeau’s apparent inaction. Article dated Nov. 9:
Glavin: Trudeau still inexplicably blasé about China's interference in Canada's elections

The article also describes previous warnings about China’s interference:
Quote:
Twelve years ago, the warning came from Richard Fadden, then the director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. At least two provincial cabinet ministers and several municipal politicians were more or less puppets of the People’s Republic of China, he said, initially avoiding mentioning China by name, for the sake of discretion. “I’m making this comment because I think it’s a real danger that people be totally oblivious to this kind of issue,” Fadden said at the time. For his trouble, Fadden was traduced and roundly denounced as a fear-monger. (PC government at the time)

Ten years ago, Anthony Campbell, the former head of the Intelligence Assessment Secretariat of the Privy Council Office, put it to me this way: “We’re sitting ducks.” He was talking about the federal government’s inability to get its collective head around foreign activity, specifically directed by Beijing, that was demonstrably and clearly detrimental to Canada’s national security interests. (PC government at the time)

Ever since, intelligence agency officials have routinely shouted into the void about foreign interference in federal elections and public policy — and this week, another bombshell, this time from Global News’ investigative reporter Sam Cooper.
So I think Trudeau was trying to counter the negative publicity by making sure Canadians knew he had raised the subject with Xi.

===============

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Why is China so interested in Canada's elections?
China wants to influence policy in its favor. For example, I don’t think China was happy about this decision earlier this month:
Federal government moves to cut China out of Canadian critical mineral industry
Quote:
After a national security review, Innovation Minister François-Philippe Champagne is ordering three Chinese resource companies to sell their interests in Canadian critical mineral firms.

Champagne's order comes less than a week after he said Canada would be limiting the involvement of foreign state-owned companies in the industry.

Critical minerals and metals, such as lithium, cadmium, nickel and cobalt, are essential components of everything from wind turbines and electric cars to laptops, solar panels and rechargeable batteries.

Last edited by cdnirene; 11-18-2022 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 11-18-2022, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,598 posts, read 4,397,461 times
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There’s also this story about a prominent member of the Toronto Chinese community:
Quote:
The Canadian Security Intelligence Service has investigated Wei Chengyi for his alleged role in a covert scheme that facilitated large-fund transfers meant to advance Beijing’s interests in Canada’s 2019 federal election, sources said.

According to RCMP sources, national security investigators are also probing Wei for possible links to several properties in Toronto and Vancouver allegedly used as so-called Chinese government “police stations,” which are believed to secretly host agents from China’s Ministry of Public Security.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9280974/c...o-businessman/
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Old 11-18-2022, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Canada
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If you think Xi was annoyed with Canada/Trudeau this week, that’s probably NOTHING compared to Xi’s annoyance with the U.K.:

Quote:
The billionaire financier Mike Bloomberg was forced to apologise to hundreds of guests at a major Asian business event in Singapore this week after complaints about a speech by Boris Johnson that robustly criticised China.
Quote:
Johnson’s remarks came the evening before Sunak was due to hold a surprise meeting with Xi Jinping at the G20 summit in Bali. The talks were cancelled, but would have made him the first UK prime minister to meet the Chinese premier in person for almost five years.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ticising-china
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Old 11-18-2022, 07:44 PM
 
1,606 posts, read 777,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Was it a secret that China interfered in Canadian elections? Does the average Canadian know this, or is it the sort of Trump/Russia collusion that only about a third of the people believe?


I'm asking because a proven case of interference, if it exists, should be made known to the world, whereas an accusation is a different thing and should be kept quiet. You know, innocent until proven guilty and all that stuff....
FTR, I never heard the story at all until this week.
I only heard of this briefly from the news banners. And the RCMP are investigating.
The 2019 federal election was quite a surprise.
Strange that you mentioned Trump. At the time, rumour Biden-Xi had some sort of exchange to release Huawei's CFO. If the Conservatives were in power, chances would be slim.
Don't know how Xi felt, when Huawei's CFO was arrested at YVR. He was oblivious sitting between Bolton and Trump at a sumptuous dinner at Mar-a-Lago estate,
Most were surprised when she was finally released, she was given a State welcome at home.
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Old 11-18-2022, 07:49 PM
 
1,606 posts, read 777,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well Trudeau is annoying though and has a hard time not peeving off people so who knows. I'm not a big China or Xi Jinping sympathizer and certainly, Canada needs to be sticking up for itself forcefully against interference in domestic affair from foreign influences but still, diplomacy and dialogue sometimes should be handled with care. Something Justin isn't well known for.



Fine but Leaders are people and if there is no sense that they can trust that certain things should be kept in private, than how can dialogue continue? Imagine if Trudeau read off every single item he talks about to every Leader? Nobody would talk to him. That is just human nature.
From one China's link, the bane was "distortortion".

There are other news outlets but not in English, e.g.:
- there was no official sit down meeting between the two leaders.
- the impromptu arrangement to meet at a crowded corridor/hall lasted only 10 minutes.
- the host country of this year G20, Joko Widodo had specifically requested no petty fights and quarrels among the attending delegates.

Below Thai tv station, reporting on the incident occurred at G20 Bali, but not on the actual 10-minute meeting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw2EOaJ0FfU
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Old 11-18-2022, 08:30 PM
 
22,925 posts, read 14,211,491 times
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And while Canada's leader seems intent on maintaining the moral high ground; what think everyone about this news tonight?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...case-khashoggi
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Old 11-18-2022, 08:38 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitty61 View Post
Same reason as they are so interested in USA.
China hasn't been interfering in the USA's election races.
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Old 11-18-2022, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,598 posts, read 4,397,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
China hasn't been interfering in the USA's election races.
I think that’s a rather naive viewpoint.

Chinese Election Meddling Hits the Midterms
Quote:
As early voting across the United States kicked into high gear this fall, so, too, did the activities of Chinese government-affiliated cyberactors seeking to discourage Americans from voting, discredit the election process, and sow further divisions among voters.
China influence operation targeted US midterm elections
Quote:
Ahead of November's vote, a social media influence operation originating in the world's second-largest economy targeted American voters of both major parties, according to a report released Tuesday by Meta.

The activity — which ran between November 2021 and September 2022 — used fake social media accounts on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram to peddle partisan messaging on hot-button topics like abortion rights and the COVID-19 pandemic, often targeting swing states like Florida, based on Meta's analysis.

The China-based influence campaign also accused U.S. President Joe Biden of corruption, while criticizing leading Republican politicians like Republican Senator Marco Rubio of Florida for not supporting gun-rights reforms.
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Old 11-19-2022, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Toronto
13,683 posts, read 13,978,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I agree with you. You can't conduct yourself well if you have no sense of what's on-the-record or not. I don't know if Trudeau misstepped or if Xi was making a point of his own in making a big deal out of nothing.
It's hard to say but just based on what i've seen with Trudeau and given Xi's reaction, i'd go with the former. At the end of the recorded exchange Xi said we need to 'set the conditions' likely meaning the conditions of their future discussions. You can be assured, Xi will ensure that everything is carefully coordinated which isn't a good thing imo because certain contentious items won't likely be even on the table for talk because Xi will feel he can't trust Trudeau, not to open his mouth about everything.

To be clear, i'm not at all saying Canada shouldn't address issues with China including meddling in our internal affairs. We need to be strong and forceful about this stuff, but peeving off the leader of China because he can't trust you won't be an open book about everything they discuss is not going to do us any good.
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Old 11-19-2022, 09:08 AM
 
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This tempest in a teapot is nothing more than a carefully crafted bit of Xi theater to wit:. "See what can happen if you dare make me even slightly uncomfortable?" This would all be for nothing more than optics.

Everything discussed between Xi and Trudeau at the so-called private meeting was a matter of public record for months, indeed, even years prior to the meeting. Trudeau has been very public in his condemnation of China for it's interference in our election process and in a variety of other instances.

Xi is attempting to put Canada in it's place due to it having taken steps to freeze out Chinese ownership or control of resource extraction, the expulsion of two scientists from a biological research facility in Manitoba, the couple of years ago Hauwei Meng Wanzhou debacle that left China smarting over a pizz-ant country treating a number of Xi's valuable puppet entities harshly.


“At the end of the day, Canada isn’t Europe or the United States and Xi knows he can take a more aggressive stance publicly. Moreover, he can use Canada as an example to other states without much in the way of consequences,”

All of this is simply theater and where better than on a very public stage. The only critique I would offer up about Trudeau's behaviour is that of him not being thoroughly rehearsed for a response to Xi's publicly upbraiding him. Trudeau should have been well prepared for that very scenario. This is after all, the leader of a country that has been very publicly threatening to invade Taiwan and cautioning everyone to keep their nose out of China's business. Trudeau under-estimated his opponent and was seemingly caught with his pants down. Had he been more interested in studying his Canada vs China portfolio and less interested in his choice of socks for the day .....

Now Canadians need to ask ourselves just how prepared are his various advisors on foreign affairs if they didn't see this coming beforehand and take appropriate steps to provide Trudeau adequate coaching so he didn't look like an errant grade fiver caught kissing Suzy in the cloak room???



This is also the country that has not been held to account by any reasonable measure of investigative freedom in the Covid -Chinese lab connection.

Last edited by BruSan; 11-19-2022 at 09:18 AM..
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