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Old 02-14-2024, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Centre Wellington, ON
5,902 posts, read 6,111,296 times
Reputation: 3173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
"“Firstly, she doesn’t have the medical expertise to be able to make that decision about whether gender-affirming care is appropriate. Secondly, calling some of these things irreversible or harmful is simply false,” Ladha said."
Double mastectomies are reversible?

A girl who takes puberty blockers from age 10 to 16 will still be able to get pregnant if she decides she wants to live life as a woman after all?

Boys who take puberty blockers from age 10 to 16 will still be able to have a normal sized penis and have children if they decide to live life as a man in the end?

Females who take male hormones and develop deep masculine voices are able to reverse that if they chance their minds? Females who take male hormones and begin to go bald and take female hormones will be able to grow their hair back if they change their minds?

If there is science to back these claims that everything being done to minors is completely reversible, I would like to see the studies.

I certainly have my reservations about Tucker, but I also have my reservations about importing a US based biology-denial cult.
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Old 02-15-2024, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Centre Wellington, ON
5,902 posts, read 6,111,296 times
Reputation: 3173
https://cps.ca/en/documents/position...outh#Table%202
A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, of at least 6 months’ duration, as manifested by at least six of the following (one of which must be Criterion A1):

1. A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender).
2. In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical feminine clothing.
What is "typical masculine clothing"? Loose fitting pants and hoodies? Sounds like Billie Eilish - who, especially when she was a young 15-17 year old celebrity, wasn't comfortable with men on the internet objectifying her body (something compounded by the fact that she has a large chest). She also mentioned she was exposed to abusive porn on the internet when she was only 11, which may have contributed to some of these feelings. Exposure to porn at such a young age is increasingly common for children these days, both girls and boys.
3. A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play.
> If you know gay men, you will know it's very common for them to idolize or look up to women, especially celebrities and fictional characters. I'd expect it's not particularly unusual for them to play-act like these idols as young boys. Or maybe they're just mimicking, close to or seeking approval from their father (if female) or mother (if male).
4. A strong preference for the toys, games, or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender.
> Notice how gender ideology has this tendency to want to reinforce gender norms/stereotypes, something I thought we had moved away from. Anyways, this is probably not uncommon with gays and tomboys.
5. A strong preference for playmates of the other gender.
>definitely very common with gays and tomboys
6. In boys (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically masculine toys, games, and activities and a strong avoidance of rough-and-tumble play; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically feminine toys, games, and activities.
>Again... this is describing a large proportion of gays and tomboys
7. A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy.
8. A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender.

The condition is associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, school, or other important areas of functioning.

For gays, I would say 1, 2, 7 and 8 are more unusual, and for girls (lesbians, tomboys), 1, 7 and 8 generally would not apply. However, I do think certain circumstances could lead to them meeting those criteria. I know a gay man who really wanted to maintain his boyish appearance when he was a teenager, felt it was gross that he was becoming big and hairy. Eventually he got over it, but he's said that if he was growing up in today's environment, it might have caused him to latch onto trans ideology.

For girls, the risk of misdiagnosis is even higher, since as I said, 3-6 aren't that meaningful, and girls won't get as many funny looks for wearing loose fitting (ie masculine) clothes as for boys wearing dresses, so 2-6 can be met fairly easily, and so only one of 1/7/8 would have to be met. As I said in prior posts, negative sexual experiences could be one cause. Whether that's due to outright sexual assault, or something like a guy you had sex with being an a-hole humiliating you to his friends (mocking how you acted or looked, or sharing photos), exposure to porn, or being sexualized (especially if you go through puberty early). I think at least one of the above is not rare at all for teen girls, and it's not hard to see how a girl might think being the other gender would allow them to escape these issues and blame her female anatomy for those negative experiences.

You can also have people with dissociative identity disorder, autism and borderline personality disorder that struggle forming their identity, and might search for explanations on the internet for why they're weird or different, and latch other transgenderism.

It's also unclear how often these diagnostic criteria are even used, or if they're mostly optional, since a lot of therapists and doctors seem to just go off of "self id". The diagnostic criteria for teens is even weaker imo.

As for the "associated with distress or impairment"... that doesn't mean much. People with trauma or psychological disorders might experience distress or impairment and it's not because "they're born in the wrong body". That also speaks to the claims that trans people are more likely to be homeless, depressed, suicidal, low income, etc. If people with trauma or psychological disorders are more likely to think they're trans, well people with those conditions are also more likely to be depressed or struggling in life whether they're trans or not.

Last edited by memph; 02-15-2024 at 01:30 AM..
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Old 02-15-2024, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Centre Wellington, ON
5,902 posts, read 6,111,296 times
Reputation: 3173
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
These treatments aren’t given out frivolously, they’re prescribed after long, comprehensive tests and monitoring to ensure the child is experiencing gender dysphoria. It’s not easy to access either, with long delays like every other aspect of our healthcare system.
Here's a testimony from an Alberta mother (a self-described "progressive"). Her child said she wanted to take opposite-sex hormones, so their regular GP referred them to a "gender dysphoria expert".
https://youtu.be/Kx__-rmZYVY?t=744

This "expert" immediately emailed the mother a consent form for treating her child with opposite sex hormones, before they even had their first appointment. After talking to her son in private for just 5 minutes, the doctor was ready to give out a prescription. So much for not being given out frivolously.

After sensing the mother's unease, the doctor then makes legal threats if she dares get in the way and the mother later finds out the doctor has been secretly prescribing her son with cross-sex hormones without her knowledge and consent.

She also went to the hospital, who she hoped would be more reasonable, and the hospital social worker said "it's not our job to diagnose children with gender dysphoria, it's our job to affirm them".

After finding out her son was secretly obtaining opposite sex hormones (16 years old at the time), she told him she thought it was a bad idea and presented her scientific evidence why but it couldn't convince him, so she let him continue to take them.
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Old 02-15-2024, 07:08 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,675 posts, read 3,098,337 times
Reputation: 1820
You act like LGBT rights advocates are the ones wanting to change things. These treatments were available already and now the culture warriors on the right want to ban them. You guys are the ones who want to change the status quo. I just want to let people live their lives. I don’t think someone sitting at their computer reading Rebel News and True North is more informed on the subject than paediatricians and endocrinologists.
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Old 02-15-2024, 07:18 AM
 
145 posts, read 112,471 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
more informed on the subject than paediatricians.
Admiral Levine is one.
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Old 02-15-2024, 08:46 AM
 
1,226 posts, read 502,972 times
Reputation: 765
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
You act like LGBT rights advocates are the ones wanting to change things. These treatments were available already and now the culture warriors on the right want to ban them. You guys are the ones who want to change the status quo. I just want to let people live their lives. I don’t think someone sitting at their computer reading Rebel News and True North is more informed on the subject than paediatricians and endocrinologists.
This is simply false. These treatments were used for other reasons. No for gender reasignment. please be honest. Parents are being told that this is the only solution. They are being told this is the only solution when in reality many DR don't know what the long term outcomes will be. PDW talks about changing the status quo well not incuding parents in life altering decision for their children or telling them they HAVE to do this or else, yes that is changing the status quo. PDW wants everyon to accept these things blindly.

IF PDW was correct we woudn't be seeing a rise in detransitioners, but its happening more and more all the time. IT 100% the lgbtq activist and their allies pushing this crap. Saying there was two genders would not have been an issue ten years. Who made it so?


Quote:
Transgender detransition is a taboo topic, but data shows it’s on the rise

Previous research based on data collected prior to 2015 found that just 1% of people detransition after undergoing gender-affirming therapy. However, studies conducted in the past few years find that the rate is likely between 2% and 10%. The apparent increase could be due to reduced scrutiny before starting hormone therapy. Transgender issues have unfortunately grown ideologically charged, even in the scientific community. Both transitioners and detransitioners deserve utmost and equal care and compassion, as well as unbiased scientific study
https://bigthink.com/health/transgender-detransition/


.

Last edited by Luisito80; 02-15-2024 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 02-15-2024, 09:08 AM
 
1,226 posts, read 502,972 times
Reputation: 765
The science on this is far from settled as some people would try to force you to believe. Several countries in Europe have put a pause on this. Some people on here have an intense anti-american bias, I posted nonAmerican sources here.

Quote:
England’s health service says it won’t give puberty blockers to children at gender clinics

LONDON (AP) — The publicly funded health service in England has decided it will not routinely offer puberty-blocking drugs to children at gender identity clinics, saying more evidence is needed about the potential benefits and harms.
https://apnews.com/article/uk-transg...de6b4656c937da



Quote:
Sweden puts brakes on treatments for trans minors
Stockholm (AFP) – Sweden, the first country to introduce legal gender reassignment, has begun restricting gender reassignment hormone treatments for minors, as it, like many Western countries, grapples with the highly-sensitive issue.

"The uncertain state of knowledge calls for caution," Board department head Thomas Linden said in a statement in December.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...r-trans-minors
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Old 02-15-2024, 09:41 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,675 posts, read 3,098,337 times
Reputation: 1820

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_vqujM...cyBzcGVlY2g%3D

Powerful speech by Naheed Nenshi. I hope he can be the next NDP leader in Alberta. He was super popular in Calgary as mayor AFAIK and hopefully can broaden their appeal beyond the Edmonton core base
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Old 02-15-2024, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,571,038 times
Reputation: 11937
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/csi...ey%20view%20as
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Old 02-15-2024, 10:20 AM
 
1,226 posts, read 502,972 times
Reputation: 765
^^ pure gas lighting.

Notice they never address or answer the issues head on. They want to appeal to the emotions and imply if you don't agree with their ideology then you must be a bad person.
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