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Old 02-12-2024, 08:53 AM
pdw pdw started this thread
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,674 posts, read 3,091,599 times
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Chevy mentioned the Peace River area a few times. I think that area is painfully underdeveloped. Great land for wheat farming almost right up to the NWT border. Lots of Mennonites have moved up there AFAIK. If we can allow more farmers to immigrate here, I’m sure many would love to settle in that area. The problem is our immigration system is very geared towards those with post secondary degrees. I don’t think a chemistry professor from India is going to want to farm up there.
To pivot back to the original topic of the thread, I think we can encourage settlement in more rural areas and help them retain their existing young people by having some federally built public housing there. Even a little rental townhouse complex would make a huge difference in places like small town SW Ontario. Netwit has mentioned prices have gone way up in her community too, maybe more local young families would be more inclined to stay if places like that were available for young families until they are able to save for a house of their own. Rural and small town rentals in Ontario are way overpriced right now. Like people want $1800 a month for a basement apartment 1.5 hours from the city. It’s nuts.
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Old 02-12-2024, 09:04 AM
 
1,220 posts, read 491,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Maybe not for the others but in terms of what Pierre was noticing, most of the previously very French Canada he knew did in fact end up becoming quite Scottish.
Exactly.
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Old 02-12-2024, 09:15 AM
 
1,220 posts, read 491,363 times
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Originally Posted by pdw View Post
I have no idea what you’re talking about. Just because there’s a large Indian community somewhere doesn’t mean they don’t want to integrate here. People like living close to their cousins, friends from back home, etc.What’s wrong with that? People from India come from all over India. Gujarat, Kerala, Punjab. These are all very different regional cultures there and the common language used when communicating is English. We have never in our history had such an educated group of immigrants coming here as we do today. Lots of people have master’s degrees and phds from India and unfortunately aren’t able to use those degrees here.
.
You clearly don't know Indians very well. We have also never had in our history so much immigration scams, fraud and religious extremism either. Indians are the least likely to integrate. I know it's taboo on here to call out Indians but it is amazing what they get a way with here. I don't know if it is denial or people just don't see or care? We literally had one person on here say its ok for Indians to discriminate others when it comes to housing. India itself is considered one of the most racist and intolerant countries in the world, if not these most. You think people are not bringing that here? Anyways Canadians don't seem to care either, if that's the way the country is going so be it.
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,875 posts, read 38,004,819 times
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Beyond the somewhat sterile debate over whether Indian immigrants to Canada are more likely to be good guys or bad guys, there is the question of "critical mass".

In recent years, the % of official immigrants to Canada from India has been holding steady at around one third. Indian immigrants are as or more numerous than the total number of immigrants *combined* of the next 9 countries of the top 10 that our immigrants come from.

Also, as anyone with eyes can see, the other categories of newcomers to Canada (foreign students and temporary foreign workers) also have a massive share of Indians within them. At least third by any reasonable estimation.

So what that means is that for example last year, when just under 2 million new people arrived in Canada, close to 700,000 of them were from India.

In other years the numbers weren't quite as high, but still - we're talking in the vicinity of 500,000 people from India entering Canada a year.

Extrapolate that over 5 or 10 years and see what the numbers are like.

Now, getting back to "critical mass", the impact of this is that people will be less likely to assimilate or at least assimilate much more slowly. As people tend to congregate with their in-group, and much more so when the in-group is very very numerous where they have settled.

This is true of any group that settles in large numbers outside of its home territory BTW: Italian, Irish, Chinese, Mexican, French Canadian, etc.
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:13 AM
 
1,220 posts, read 491,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Beyond the somewhat sterile debate over whether Indian immigrants to Canada are more likely to be good guys or bad guys, there is the question of "critical mass".

In recent years, the % of official immigrants to Canada from India has been holding steady at around one third. Indian immigrants are as or more numerous than the total number of immigrants *combined* of the next 9 countries of the top 10 that our immigrants come from.

Also, as anyone with eyes can see, the other categories of newcomers to Canada (foreign students and temporary foreign workers) also have a massive share of Indians within them. At least third by any reasonable estimation.

So what that means is that for example last year, when just under 2 million new people arrived in Canada, close to 700,000 of them were from India.

In other years the numbers weren't quite as high, but still - we're talking in the vicinity of 500,000 people from India entering Canada a year.

Extrapolate that over 5 or 10 years and see what the numbers are like.

Now, getting back to "critical mass", the impact of this is that people will be less likely to assimilate or at least assimilate much more slowly. As people tend to congregate with their in-group, and much more so when the in-group is very very numerous where they have settled.

This is true of any group that settles in large numbers outside of its home territory BTW: Italian, Irish, Chinese, Mexican, French Canadian, etc.
I find that when people bring up this point, people usually reply with well it's normal we have such a massive portion of indian immigrants as India is a very populous country. I am not sure that is a good argument though. The Canadian population doesn't have to reflect the worlds demographics. It certainly doesn't with many other groups. It is specially ironic for a country that prides itself on diversity and multiculturalism.

You are alo correct about the other groups you mentioned in except I am sure Indians have outnumbered all of them now. Except for Fench Canadians who have been here the longest. I wouldn't throw Mexicans in there though, For the US yes but definitely not here. I do worry about the amount of Mexicans abusing their visa exempt travel status into Canada. Not sure why they are even afforded that privilege. I have heard through freinds in the construction business that there has been a sharp increase of Mexican workers trying to get jobs withouth proper papers. This is not good and needs to be shut down ASAP. Nothing against Mexicans but I don't like people abusing the system. I also don't like people taking advantage of undocumented workers. We need construction workers, so this might be an area the government needs to look at doing something about.
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,875 posts, read 38,004,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito80 View Post
I find that when people bring up this point, people usually reply with well it's normal we have such a massive portion of indian immigrants as India is a very populous country. I am not sure that is a good argument though. The Canadian population doesn't have to reflect the worlds demographics. It certainly doesn't with many other groups. It is specially ironic for a country that prides itself on diversity and multiculturalism.

You are alo correct about the other groups you mentioned in except I am sure Indians have outnumbered all of them now. Except for Fench Canadians who have been here the longest. I wouldn't throw Mexicans in there though, For the US yes but definitely not here. I do worry about the amount of Mexicans abusing their visa exempt travel status into Canada. Not sure why they are even afforded that privilege. I have heard through freinds in the construction business that there has been a sharp increase of Mexican workers trying to get jobs withouth proper papers. This is not good and needs to be shut down ASAP. Nothing against Mexicans but I don't like people abusing the system. I also don't like people taking advantage of undocumented workers. We need construction workers, so this might be an area the government needs to look at doing something about.
Sorry, I didn't just refer to groups congregating in Canada. For example French Canadians congregated in specific areas of milltowns in the northeastern US a century ago.

I definitely agree that there is no requirement for Canada to have a near-perfect representation of the world's population. That would be an absurd idea and objective.
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,540,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
I don't see lawsuits. I see a solution in contractual terms, as regards legal immigrants.

"If you want to come to Canada, then you have to spend your first three years in Peace River, Alberta. [Or another place where housing is reasonably-priced.] If you agree, great; if you do not agree and insist on Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver, then we don't want you, and you can go away." That's the language of contract: if you do this for us, we will do that for you. Offer, acceptance, consideration (in a contract context, "consideration" means "something of value"), consensus ad idem, and legality of object. In short, we're offering you the opportunity to immigrate to Canada, but under our terms. If you don't like them, if you don't want to enter into the contract, that's fine. You don't have to. But if you don't, then you don't come in.

It's easy enough to monitor. Witness all the times during Covid, when people were monitored to make sure they were quarantining after returning to Canada. Heck, our own Mightyqueen posted about how she was checked up on, mostly via phone calls, after she was admitted to Canada.

But it's a contract. Break the contract, by moving to Toronto three weeks after you've been allowed into Canada, and assigned to Peace River, and you'll be deported immediately. Mention Charter s. 6, and you'll be informed that a contract that both parties agreed to, can override the Charter. Happens every day--I might tell my employer that I'd like to move to Toronto, and they might say that I cannot.

Why? Because I've got a contract with my employer that says I have to be at the office in Alberta every day. Does this infringe upon my Charter s. 6 rights? No, because it's a contractual obligation between two parties, each of whom agreed to it.


Besides, after three years, they can move wherever they want to. Before that though, they're party to a contract that limits where they live.
Personally I think it would be a good idea, but I see pitfalls. Immigrants would have to be pretty much guaranteed to have a job where they are forced to live. Even if they get employment, what happens if they lose that job, but can find employment elsewhere in Canada? Are they forced to stay unemployed, or under achieve by being forced to stay in one place?

Also, your employer isn't preventing you from moving anywhere in Canada, hence no violation of Charter rights. You can, it's just that you lose your job. I don't see it as the same as the government saying you can't move at all, regardless.

Again I'm relying on your expertise. Can a PR or Canadian citizen give up their Charter rights or would all this fall under Section 1 of the Charter?

Last edited by Natnasci; 02-12-2024 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,676 posts, read 5,522,852 times
Reputation: 8817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito80 View Post
I find that when people bring up this point, people usually reply with well it's normal we have such a massive portion of indian immigrants as India is a very populous country. I am not sure that is a good argument though. The Canadian population doesn't have to reflect the world’s demographics. It certainly doesn't with many other groups. It is specially ironic for a country that prides itself on diversity and multiculturalism.

You are alo correct about the other groups you mentioned in except I am sure Indians have outnumbered all of them now. Except for Fench Canadians who have been here the longest. I wouldn't throw Mexicans in there though, For the US yes but definitely not here. I do worry about the amount of Mexicans abusing their visa exempt travel status into Canada. Not sure why they are even afforded that privilege. I have heard through freinds in the construction business that there has been a sharp increase of Mexican workers trying to get jobs withouth proper papers. This is not good and needs to be shut down ASAP. Nothing against Mexicans but I don't like people abusing the system. I also don't like people taking advantage of undocumented workers. We need construction workers, so this might be an area the government needs to look at doing something about.
Beef.

Article from 2016:

Canada drops Mexican visa requirement, Mexico lifts beef ban
.
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Old 02-12-2024, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,316,797 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Chevy mentioned the Peace River area a few times. I think that area is painfully underdeveloped. Great land for wheat farming almost right up to the NWT border. Lots of Mennonites have moved up there AFAIK. If we can allow more farmers to immigrate here, I’m sure many would love to settle in that area. The problem is our immigration system is very geared towards those with post secondary degrees. I don’t think a chemistry professor from India is going to want to farm up there.
To pivot back to the original topic of the thread, I think we can encourage settlement in more rural areas and help them retain their existing young people by having some federally built public housing there. Even a little rental townhouse complex would make a huge difference in places like small town SW Ontario. Netwit has mentioned prices have gone way up in her community too, maybe more local young families would be more inclined to stay if places like that were available for young families until they are able to save for a house of their own. Rural and small town rentals in Ontario are way overpriced right now. Like people want $1800 a month for a basement apartment 1.5 hours from the city. It’s nuts.
The only immigrant farmers I know, were farmers in their native country and immigrated here with more money than you can possibly imagine under investor programs. Farming has outstripped the ability of average Canadians to pay to enter the market.

And the young people who are staying here are the people who grew up here and want to.
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Old 02-12-2024, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,316,797 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by feverete View Post
Not sure in which part of Canada you live. In the area where I reside most indian people only interact with other people from India.

I have witnessed Indian landlors asking for Indian tenants only. Some Indian managers immediately ignore resumes from Non-Indian candidates, so unless your name is Patel, Gandi etc you won't get the job even if you are the most qualified candidate. This doesn't sound like integration to me.

When their kids go to school they only speak their languages instead of using English or French.

And no, not all of them are educated. Some of them are pretty mediocre workers and come with very basic skills.
You're confusing integration and assimilation.
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