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Old 02-12-2024, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,875 posts, read 38,004,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
You're confusing integration and assimilation.
There is admittedly a very fine line between the two concepts.
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Old 02-12-2024, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,316,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Add me to the list of people who are skeptical that a contract to compel immigrants to move to "the regions" would change things substantially.

You'd only get a tiny number who would stay - the random guy who falls in love with a local girl and marries into her family, or something like that.

99% would migrate to the major cities eventually.

I have seen this first-hand when Vietnamese boat people came to Canada in the late 1970s. Many of them were taken under the wing of French Canadian Catholic parishes in Quebec, New Brunswick and Eastern Ontario. While they were all very grateful for what was done for them in these communities, within about 20 years almost all of them were gone to Montreal or Toronto.

I remember one time meeting a Vietnamese guy in Montreal who spoke French with a southeastern New Brunswick Acadian accent. (It's very distinctive.)

When I asked him why he said his family had been taken in by the community in this small Acadian town about an hour outside Moncton, so that's where he grew up and learned his French. He never lost the accent.
My mother and I were talking about this the other day as Mennonites sponsored a lot of Vietnamese. We were talking about how surprising it was that so many had stayed around here in the small Mennonite communities and started businesses here, with more than a couple becoming doctors, marrying Mennonites, attending Mennonite churches etc.
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Old 02-12-2024, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,875 posts, read 38,004,819 times
Reputation: 11640
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
The only immigrant farmers I know, were farmers in their native country and immigrated here with more money than you can possibly imagine under investor programs. Farming has outstripped the ability of average Canadians to pay to enter the market.

And the young people who are staying here are the people who grew up here and want to.
My impression is also that for all sorts of reasons farming as a career and lifestyle choice is probably on the decline worldwide and so finding large numbers of people abroad who'd be interested in coming to Canada to farm is not as simple as it was in the past.
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Old 02-12-2024, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,316,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
There is admittedly a very fine line between the two concepts.
How so?
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Old 02-12-2024, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,316,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
My impression is also that for all sorts of reasons farming as a career and lifestyle choice is probably on the decline worldwide and so finding large numbers of people abroad who'd be interested in coming to Canada to farm is not as simple as it was in the past.
They (in my area Germans and Brits) could retire on the funds they come down with. The size of farms there doesn't touch what they can have here. There are people who see the connection between man and soil as a primal one and in Europe they worried they would not be able to offer the lifestyle to their children and grandchildren. There are plenty of German farmers who would come here to farm but they used to be able to come without knowing much English at all. That put a damper on things in Manitoba.
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Old 02-12-2024, 12:58 PM
 
1,221 posts, read 491,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
My mother and I were talking about this the other day as Mennonites sponsored a lot of Vietnamese. We were talking about how surprising it was that so many had stayed around here in the small Mennonite communities and started businesses here, with more than a couple becoming doctors, marrying Mennonites, attending Mennonite churches etc.
Interesting you mentioned that. My stepfathers family belonged to a Church that also sponsored at least two Vietnamese families to Canada back in the 70s. From what I am told though these families didn't stay in the area. My stepfathers family also adopted an orphan girl from vietnam war back in the 70s. She was my "step-aunt" and unfortunately she passed away from cancer at the age of 38.
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Old 02-12-2024, 01:17 PM
pdw pdw started this thread
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,674 posts, read 3,091,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
The only immigrant farmers I know, were farmers in their native country and immigrated here with more money than you can possibly imagine under investor programs. Farming has outstripped the ability of average Canadians to pay to enter the market.

And the young people who are staying here are the people who grew up here and want to.
I was just browsing real estate listings for land in the prairies. It seems to have gone up a lot in cost. I’d imagine somewhere far north with a short growing season you’d need a gigantic piece of land to turn a profit. Are there apprenticeship programs in place that get immigrant farmers familiar with grain farming in Canada? I wonder if it’s feasible to learn those skills and rent a lot to farm on as a stepping stone to ownership down the road. Maybe that ship has sailed. Northern Alberta/Northeast BC is still pretty empty but I’d imagine one would have to get pretty creative to develop some of those areas but I wonder if it’s still possible. We are of course one of the world’s biggest countries. AFAIK wheat and dairy are huge industries in India. Beef, not so much I’d imagine because of religious reasons.

Churches sponsoring refugees really makes me thankful for the kindness of people of faith. From Vietnamese in the 70s to Ukrainians and Syrians today, the kindness of people in welcoming those from troubled parts of the world really exemplifies both Christian values and Canadian values as a whole
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Old 02-12-2024, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,309 posts, read 9,316,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
I was just browsing real estate listings for land in the prairies. It seems to have gone up a lot in cost. I’d imagine somewhere far north with a short growing season you’d need a gigantic piece of land to turn a profit. Are there apprenticeship programs in place that get immigrant farmers familiar with grain farming in Canada? I wonder if it’s feasible to learn those skills and rent a lot to farm on as a stepping stone to ownership down the road. Maybe that ship has sailed. Northern Alberta/Northeast BC is still pretty empty but I’d imagine one would have to get pretty creative to develop some of those areas but I wonder if it’s still possible. We are of course one of the world’s biggest countries. AFAIK wheat and dairy are huge industries in India. Beef, not so much I’d imagine because of religious reasons.

Churches sponsoring refugees really makes me thankful for the kindness of people of faith. From Vietnamese in the 70s to Ukrainians and Syrians today, the kindness of people in welcoming those from troubled parts of the world really exemplifies both Christian values and Canadian values as a whole
I don't know about the Peace River area but in Manitoba you wouldn't find a farm to rent. It's worth too much. Not only that but you also have to factor in the cost of equipment and/or livestock. Even the cheapest farm you're looking at a million dollars. And then you're dependent on the weather.
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Old 02-13-2024, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
3,624 posts, read 3,406,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Chevy mentioned the Peace River area a few times. ...
Only because I once looked into a job up there. The job was great; I could have done nicely there. The employer desperately wanted me, but in the end, I didn't want to go to Peace River. In my post, I was looking for a place few people go to, but would know, and Peace River fits the bill.

Natnasci said,

Quote:
Also, your employer isn't preventing you from moving anywhere in Canada, hence no violation of Charter rights. You can, it's just that you lose your job. I don't see it as the same as the government saying you can't move at all, regardless.

Again I'm relying on your expertise. Can a PR or Canadian citizen give up their Charter rights or would all this fall under Section 1 of the Charter?
Right. You can quit your job and move anywhere you please. But you have to quit your job first.

If immigrants who have been forced to live in Peace River for three years choose to move to Toronto at the end of their three-year stint, more power to them. At least, they will have been exposed to a part of Canada they otherwise would never have seen. Maybe they'll like it, maybe they won't. But if they move to Toronto, and leave that single-family, fully-detached, three-bedroom dwelling in Peace River for a two-bedroom condo on the 21st floor in Toronto on which they still have a $600K mortgage, would they? Maybe they'd take a second look at Peace River. Or maybe they'd take a look at Sault Ste. Marie, ON, or Lethbridge, AB, or Cranbrooke, BC.

You can abrogate (give up) your Charter rights at any time. As a citizen, you have the right to vote. You don't vote, you have abrogated that right. But you can vote next time, or not, as you choose. You can choose not to testify against yourself in court, but you can give that right up, if you wish. You can choose not to have a lawyer represent you in court, although you have the right to one (note that we do not have public defenders, though I've certainly done my share of representing criminal accuseds who otherwise would have no representation at all, and all pro bono). And so on. It all comes down to choices, and part of my job is laying out those choices, and the pros and cons of each.

I'm unsure where or why or how Charter s. 1 enters into this. Could you explain?
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Old 02-13-2024, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,540,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Only because I once looked into a job up there. The job was great; I could have done nicely there. The employer desperately wanted me, but in the end, I didn't want to go to Peace River. In my post, I was looking for a place few people go to, but would know, and Peace River fits the bill.

Natnasci said,

Right. You can quit your job and move anywhere you please. But you have to quit your job first.

If immigrants who have been forced to live in Peace River for three years choose to move to Toronto at the end of their three-year stint, more power to them. At least, they will have been exposed to a part of Canada they otherwise would never have seen. Maybe they'll like it, maybe they won't. But if they move to Toronto, and leave that single-family, fully-detached, three-bedroom dwelling in Peace River for a two-bedroom condo on the 21st floor in Toronto on which they still have a $600K mortgage, would they? Maybe they'd take a second look at Peace River. Or maybe they'd take a look at Sault Ste. Marie, ON, or Lethbridge, AB, or Cranbrooke, BC.

You can abrogate (give up) your Charter rights at any time. As a citizen, you have the right to vote. You don't vote, you have abrogated that right. But you can vote next time, or not, as you choose. You can choose not to testify against yourself in court, but you can give that right up, if you wish. You can chloose not to have a lawyer represent you in court, although you have the right to one (note that we do not have public defenders, though I've certainly done my share of representing criminal accuseds who otherwise would have no representation at all, and all pro bono). And so on. It all comes down to choices, and part of my job is laying out those choices, and the pros and cons of each.

I'm unsure where or why or how Charter s. 1 enters into this. Could you explain?
Sounds like a question on a bar exam!

I had read, in my very unprofessional capacity, that in Section 1, Charter Rights can be limited by law.

So I was wondering if the Feds wanted to change the law to limit the freedom of movement bit, for new immigrants for a specific period of time, if that would be the way to go? Or would that change not be allowed, since it affects only one group, and the Charter is for all???
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