advice on Canada (insurance, violent crime, employment)

[Vichel]

We'll be returning to Canada in a couple of years or sooner and it's a bit concerning this doctor shortage. I've read reports that say that many newcomers can't get in to see any doctor because they're not taking new patients. That you have to somehow find a connection to get you in, like it was some sort of exclusive club. So for an ordinary prescription you have to sit in the emergency ward for 4 hours, which is a ridiculous thing to have to do, given how emergency departments are already full of people who shouldn't be there in the first place. This is the one thing that's making me a little less excited about moving back to Canada.

They had drop-in clinics back in the 90's when we lived there, which is handy, but it's always better to have one doctor that you go to, especially as you get older. A medical history can be life-saving.

And as far as free, as others have noted, it's not "free". Higher taxes pay for it. Plus, I'm sure there's an annual premium you have to pay on top of that too. About $900 for a family. If my memory hasn't failed me, I believe most employers pay this, but if you dont' have an employer, you have to pay this out of your own pocket, on top of income taxes.

They also seem to "delist" services paid for by Medicare all the time. The free eye exam every 2 years is a curious one to delist. But I suppose when you have a public system that's "free" you have to cut costs somewhere.

Yes, horror stories abound, on both sides of the border. My friends and family in BC and Quebec are full of them.

[redturtle]

I've lived in both countries (just moved to the US from Canada).

Both have their tradeoffs.

HEALTHCARE: they can be a nightmare, but for different reasons.

Millions of Americans can't get healthcare because they can't afford it. Millions of Canadians can't get healthcare because they're waiting in line for it.

Older Americans come to Canada to buy prescriptions they can afford. Older Canadians go to the US to get medical procedures they can't get in Canada.

The US HMOs are bureaucratic, ruthless, and provide coverage plans that are more byzantine than the tax code, it might as well be written in Russian. The Canadian government is bureaucratic in order to ensure that everyone rich or poor receives equally mediocre healthcare service.

US doctors are burnt out on the medical malpractice, litigious culture, and the HMOs that prevent them from doing their job properly. Canadian doctors are overworked because there's not enough of them, which prevents them from doing their job properly.

TAXES: it's all relative.

Overall, Canada's tax burden is higher. But not always much higher. Compared to Montana, Washington State, Texas, etc. Canada might as well be Sweden. But compared to high tax states like California and New York, it's not that different. And when you factor in cost of living differences, your net savings won't be that different.

And when Canadians pine to live in the US, they're not dreaming of West Virginia, Montana, Alabama, or New Mexico (no offense intended). It's sunny California or the bright lights big city of New York. They don't aspire to live in middle America (because it's not that different than what's offered in Canada).

SCHOOLS: Canada wins hands down for K-12, US wins for college and grad school.

Canada wins K-12 not because it's public school system is amazing, but because the US system is so broken and horrid.

US wins for college and grad school -- simply put, they have the money to fund the best universities in the world. Canada's universities and colleges are pretty good - but none are truly exceptional. Canada's best universities are equivalent to the good state schools (University of California system, University of Texas, University of Michigan, University of Virginia). And for grad school, it's about attracting the best students from around the world AND research money -- and there's no contest here either the US wins hands down.

JOBS/CAREER: for the most part, the US has the edge, but with tradeoffs.

Canadians go to the US to maximize career advancement they can't get in Canada. Canadians stay in Canada though for a better quality of life overall.

Canada is a better place to settle down and retire than it is to build a career.

It's not really about money, but about opportunities. To maximize your opportunities, career growth, etc there is no contest -- Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Hollywood, you name it -- it's simply bigger in the US. Way bigger.

The tradeoff is the mentality. The US is a much more work-oriented culture, especially in metro areas that are the home base of major industries - New York, LA, SF, Houston, Chicago, Boston, and so forth. Americans work harder and work longer hours and simply care more about their work than Canadians do. That's good and bad. As a customer, it's great because American work culture is more efficient and effective. But it's bad if you're an employee because they expect you to take your job far more seriously than Canadians normally would - Canadian work culture values work-life balance more than Americans do.

HOUSING: more regional than national.

You can't compare Canada vs. the US, since housing markets are highly regional. Vancouver's market has more in common with Seattle than either of them do with Toronto or NY's real estate market.

Vancouver and Toronto are on average more expensive than any other US city other than New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles or Boston.

DIVERSITY: depends on the region

Toronto is diverse in every respect - culturally, politically, socially, etc. Its diversity is comparable to New York.

Vancouver is less diverse - majority are either white, Asian, or Indian (Sikh). But it's more socially liberal and tolerant than any other region in Canada, comparable to Berkeley/SF in terms of social values (both full of rich hippies).

Alberta is a winter version of Texas in every respect. Like Texas, it's more diverse than most people think, but like Texas it's also socially conservative where "white" isn't just a race, but a culture and way of life.

Saskatchewan and Manitoba are similar to the Ohio, Minnesota, Nebraska - a hodgepodge of overwhelmingly white communities scattered across the prairies - but unlike Alberta or Texas, less socially conservative even if they are less diverse.

Montreal and the rest of Quebec are unique within North America. Mostly French speaking, with Montreal being its cultural epicenter and greatest diversity of French-speaking immigrants.

Maritimers have no real comparison either, much like New Orleans is its own unique place, or Florida being unique. And Newfies (Newfoundland residents) are well... Newfies.

[ajau]

Originally Posted by redturtle

I've lived in both countries (just moved to the US from Canada).

TAXES: it's all relative.

Overall, Canada's tax burden is higher. But not always much higher. Compared to Montana, Washington State, Texas, etc. Canada might as well be Sweden. But compared to high tax states like California and New York, it's not that different. And when you factor in cost of living differences, your net savings won't be that different.

And when Canadians pine to live in the US, they're not dreaming of West Virginia, Montana, Alabama, or New Mexico (no offense intended). It's sunny California or the bright lights big city of New York. They don't aspire to live in middle America (because it's not that different than what's offered in Canada).

Of course there is a large difference between provinces also... Alberta for instance doesn't have provincial sales tax (only 5% federal GST) while Ontario has 8% PST on top of 5% GST. Also, property taxes are about double in Ontario vs. Alberta or BC and other ancillary taxes such as gasoline tax, property transfer tax, etc. are much lower in the West than the East, or don't even exist such as property transfer tax in Alberta.

Canadian taxation between jurisdictions is just as diverse as the US.

SCHOOLS: Canada wins hands down for K-12, US wins for college and grad school.

Canada wins K-12 not because it's public school system is amazing, but because the US system is so broken and horrid.

US wins for college and grad school -- simply put, they have the money to fund the best universities in the world. Canada's universities and colleges are pretty good - but none are truly exceptional. Canada's best universities are equivalent to the good state schools (University of California system, University of Texas, University of Michigan, University of Virginia). And for grad school, it's about attracting the best students from around the world AND research money -- and there's no contest here either the US wins hands down.

It should be noted that Canadian K-12 is internationally ranked amongst the top of the world in the latest PISA Study. Again, some provinces excel more than others (West is generally better than East) but overall Canadian K-12 schools are world class.

JOBS/CAREER: for the most part, the US has the edge, but with tradeoffs.

Canadians go to the US to maximize career advancement they can't get in Canada. Canadians stay in Canada though for a better quality of life overall.

Canada is a better place to settle down and retire than it is to build a career.

It's not really about money, but about opportunities. To maximize your opportunities, career growth, etc there is no contest -- Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Hollywood, you name it -- it's simply bigger in the US. Way bigger.

The tradeoff is the mentality. The US is a much more work-oriented culture, especially in metro areas that are the home base of major industries - New York, LA, SF, Houston, Chicago, Boston, and so forth. Americans work harder and work longer hours and simply care more about their work than Canadians do. That's good and bad. As a customer, it's great because American work culture is more efficient and effective. But it's bad if you're an employee because they expect you to take your job far more seriously than Canadians normally would - Canadian work culture values work-life balance more than Americans do.

This is not to say that hard work won't be rewarded in Canada. You'll find that employees with an "American Work Ethic" are the ones who generally move along quicker in their careers... In fact, you might find that there is less competition come promotion time because so many of your co-workers are more interested in a work-life balance than career. It's not that employers are less interested, it's that employees are more content. Remember, if you lose your job in Canada you do not lose your health insurance.

I should also mention that the "resource boom" cities such as Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, etc. have much more career growth potential than cities such as Toronto and Montreal since those economies are growing much more quickly and are much less developed. There is a reason why there is a very noticeable migration of young educated people (both white and especially blue collar skilled trades) from East to West.

HOUSING: more regional than national.

You can't compare Canada vs. the US, since housing markets are highly regional. Vancouver's market has more in common with Seattle than either of them do with Toronto or NY's real estate market.

Vancouver and Toronto are on average more expensive than any other US city other than New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles or Boston.

Canada hasn't experienced a housing correction yet like the US has. Currently comparing cities such as Toronto vs. Chicago, Vancouver vs. Seattle, Calgary vs. Denver, etc. you will notice that similar houses/neighborhoods are much more pricey in Canada than the US. I can't predict the future but IMHO that tells me more than anything that a large price correction is coming for Canadian Housing.

[prsweeney]

I have been to Toronto many times and love it there but it is expensive to live there. I am considering Ottawa where it is cheaper to live and still can drive to Toronto now and then.

[ZX14TJ]

Originally Posted by redturtle

I've lived in both countries (just moved to the US from Canada).

Both have their tradeoffs.

I enjoyed your post. The only issue I would strongly disagree on is the taxation issue. On the surface, income, property, and sales taxes are easy to determine. The real bite comes in the form of indirect taxes. Business are heavily taxed and generally pass those taxes on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Virtually everything in Canada is more expensive than on the other side of the imaginary line (border).

[stone-ground]

Originally Posted by redturtle

I've lived in both countries (just moved to the US from Canada).

Both have their tradeoffs.

HEALTHCARE: they can be a nightmare, but for different reasons.

Millions of Americans can't get healthcare because they can't afford it. Millions of Canadians can't get healthcare because they're waiting in line for it.

Older Americans come to Canada to buy prescriptions they can afford. Older Canadians go to the US to get medical procedures they can't get in Canada.

The US HMOs are bureaucratic, ruthless, and provide coverage plans that are more byzantine than the tax code, it might as well be written in Russian. The Canadian government is bureaucratic in order to ensure that everyone rich or poor receives equally mediocre healthcare service.

US doctors are burnt out on the medical malpractice, litigious culture, and the HMOs that prevent them from doing their job properly. Canadian doctors are overworked because there's not enough of them, which prevents them from doing their job properly.

So true Redturtle! I also enjoyed your post!

[StuckPA]

So far the biggest complaint about Canada seems to be high taxes...not so much a floudering economy,companies closing down every day and/or laying off,immigration problems,& crime like the u.s.

[ZX14TJ]

Originally Posted by StuckPA

So far the biggest complaint about Canada seems to be high taxes...not so much a floudering economy,companies closing down every day and/or laying off,immigration problems,& crime like the u.s.

Don't think for a second we don't have all that stuff too

[StuckPA]

Originally Posted by ZX14TJ

Don't think for a second we don't have all that stuff too

All of it?
So what's the point of moving there? It'd be like the u.s except with higher taxes and a longer medical wait

[evanusc]

Originally Posted by Galloway

Its so bad that whites in my neighbourhood are now a minority. I can't tell you how many stares and racial remarks Iv'e had thrown at me for being white. Canada is being overrun by immigrants and they are pushing the white people out.

Why do you HAVE TO be the majority? In both the US and Canada, the Chinese, Persians, Indians etc are still the minority, and do white people think about what they go through everyday as a minority group? They have to overcome language and cultural barriers, not to mention stereotypes against them, in order to make a living and be part of the country.
The whites are still by far the majority in North America, and just because people of different ethnic backgrounds are increasing, and you guys are losing just a teeny tiny bit of absolute dominant control, you just can't take it any more? From your post, I feel like you are making an assumption that Canada and the US are supposed to be the whites' paradise, and other people are sort of invading your territory, and as an Asian myself, I don't think that's the right way to think.