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Old 08-04-2008, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
321 posts, read 443,128 times
Reputation: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by smp2010 View Post
Why was he allowed on the bus with a knife? After 9-11 the world got the memo that security was top priority(especially in the west) but greyhound missed that one? A simple carry on screening and pass through metal detector would suffice, and would have prevented this tragedy.
Do you realize just how many Greyhound stops there are, including several in very small towns where one or two people (or none) get on or off? Also, Amtrak doesn't have any kind of metal detector either, just airports.

Otherwise, good points.

One thing that people need to realize just how extremely and incredibly rare this is. And I am disturbed by people who are judging the people who were there - you were not there, you don't know what it was like.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:23 AM
 
3,326 posts, read 2,509,334 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingthegreen View Post
One thing that people need to realize just how extremely and incredibly rare this is. And I am disturbed by people who are judging the people who were there - you were not there, you don't know what it was like.
I don't think those people have every been on a Greyhound bus, never mind one where a passenger decapitated another. The aisle is probably more narrow than airplanes and more narrow than your typical city bus aisle. This also happened at the back of the bus, so it wouldn't be 35:1 (minus the victim and the perp), but rather 1 on 1 (keep in mind that one has a hunting knife and a lot of those people were elderly and children) 35 times. There is this old battle tactic, I can't remember what it is called, but involved outnumbered soldiers purposely blocking themselves in a narrow area to take away the numerical advantage of the enemy by basically forcing them to fight only a few soldiers at a time. Like in the movie 300.

Also, keep in mind that this passenger wasn't acting strange or threatening at any time previously and it was during the night for what had been a bus ride that had been a few days for many of the people on the bus. Even the first guy to realize what happened said that it took him a few seconds to realize that there a was a stabbing taking place and he was sitting right infront of them as well. How were the other 35 passengers supposed to know what exactly was going on?

I've heard a lot people compare the United 93 passengers to the bus riders. It's a pretty lousy comparison. They only took on the hijackers after they learned that several other planes had been hijacked and the fate of those onboard. They knew that they were dead anyways and if they fought back they would have a chance of at least perventing another attack. I should also mention that the hijackers also stabbed several people on United 93 as well and the passengers did not play hero at that moment because they were scared. They only became heros when they learned that even if they wouldn't be able to regain control of the plane, they would at least stop the killing.

Wannabe heroes, keep that in mind.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Toronto
217 posts, read 80,836 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by smp2010 View Post
First, without reading all other responses this may repeat others opinions. Here goes.

Why was he allowed on the bus with a knife? After 9-11 the world got the memo that security was top priority(especially in the west) but greyhound missed that one? A simple carry on screening and pass through metal detector would suffice, and would have prevented this tragedy. Does Canada really think "oh the world loves Canadians, they hate americans, put a maple leaf on your backpack", wake up there are people out there that hate our way of life, the life based upon judeo-christian values(ie NON MUSLIM) way of life, shared by us and other countries they love to hate. wake up. Next why are the drivers not trained in self protection or protection of passengers? A gun? I know that makes Canadians squeamish as they are numbed to believe that guns are evil, thanks to the Libs and 20 years of using the CBC to indoctrinate the people of Canada. Okay if the gun thing is too much(I mean it was a fight to arm the border guards(oh Canada)) then how about less lethal forms of equalization, such as a taser or mace? And with proper training this driver may have been able to stop this, or at least stop the bloodfeast that followed. Which takes me to my next point, the RCMP.

Now here is a trained force that does carry guns, and supposedly knows how to use them. Then why did they stand by doing nothing but "talk" to this guy for 3-5 hours while he dismembered and chomped away at the victims body? There was no question he was the perp, he was the one eating the body as well in front of their eyes. They did nothing to stop him, NOTHING! This is who is protecting us? I know the body was dead in our eyes, but for the dignity of the family and for the victims own dignity they should have entered the bus, attempted to restrain him, if he resisted or threatened them, they should have killed him right then and there. Save us all from this grisly aftermath story. Save us all from the years of tax payer funded public defenders who will try and get him to walk free in OUR society.

Also he was charged with 2nd degree murder, (which an initial poster said is life the same as 1st degree, but with possibility of parole at 15 years, which is incorrect it is POP at 10 years) that comes with a possibility of parole after 10 years. 1st degree has a possibility after 25 years. So lets discuss this. He brings the knife on the bus(I am guessing he wasn't carrying it for opening newspapers at his job, nor cutting Macdonald's rat meat at his other job)so that to me shows some premeditation, then he chooses a victim and seats himself next to him(again premeditation) and does the crime. He maybe did not plan a week or or a day prior that this particular young man was to die, but he obvioulsy put some forethought into killing someone. He should get 1st as far as I am concerned. 2nd is when death happens in the heat of the moment. robbery gone bad etc. This was a plan by an imported psychopath who now will cost us millions to find guilty of 2nd degree(weak weak weak) murder, put in a mental health jail, treat for years, possibly to be released back into our midst in as little as 10 years, oh boy can't wait for that day. Canada needs to get some balls back into the justice system, we need a way to deal with human waste that should not be costly to taxpayers. The liberal government again took away the claws and told us it was best for all of us. TOLD US!

Now my final note, our government also says we need more population of this nation is to exist in the future and to compete. We are just not having enough babies fast enough, I mean the god damn taxes we all have to pay makes us scared/overtaxed to afford/make more than 1 baby, they control why we are not reproducing, but tell us we need more people. So they open the door to nations around the world. Now many who come are good people wanting a new life, and bring with them wonderful character and culture to share with us, and to become Canadians with us. Then with the volume of people comes a small percentage of human waste that did not fit in their mother countries, so they come here, and with them they bring things far less colorful and far less good for all of us. Crime, disease, mental illness, violence etc. Our government in its rush to fill lousy paying high taxed jobs to fill their coffers has pushed so many people through, many such as this wackjob. I can tell you with my own personal knowledge of immigration that background checks are really hard to do between say two closely related (in language, culture and geography) countries such as America and Canada due to bureaucracy and time. Try doing that with a communist country that speaks little of our language, and cares little about sharing backgrounds on its people who have left. "its your problem now" Or countries that keep little to no records on its peoples(ie mexico and others). Our government is looking for red flags, if they don't pop up, they get to stay. Not to mention in refugee claims they are allowed to enter and stay while the checks are being done. SCARY? I think so.

Anyhow this event is horrible but lets not let this young mans death go by with only a few wordy posts. Time to tell this government whose country it really is. Tell them multiculturalism is all good, but this is Canada, so the blending ends there. This should be a wake up call, it is time to stop being led by our noses by liberal thinking. People will tell you we are being rednecks or fools etc in an attempt to silence this speech, but it is they that have allowed this to happen. They tell us diversity is great, we need it. These people are all great, and again most are, but with that comes the blanket numbness that we just accept. Call greyhound Canada, call the RCMP(and also remind them that they need to be more gentle to victims families and speak with them promptly, way before the media informs them that their child was killed, and in this day and age of instant communication that needs to be quickly managed, not 24 hours later, this is not 1968), call your politicians tell them you are concerned over the immigration that has been pushed on us for the last 20 years, and is ramping up every year, call your local leaders and demand they put pressure on greyhound to operate with OUR safety in mind, not their profits.

Don't just get lulled back into thinking we have to accept this crap from them, it is about our children, it is about our country, it is about our lives, NOT THEIRS...
Wonderful post! I totally agree with you. The Spineless, Liberal government in Canada makes me sick! They are destroying the country.
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:27 PM
 
3,557 posts, read 6,711,281 times
Reputation: 2262
Frank has it right. The attacker wouldn't be defending himself against 34 other passengers. He'd be defending himself against one at a time. The lives of the other passengers would only be in imminent danger if they remained on the bus or moved toward the attacker. The young man was already dead, and the passengers and driver did the right thing: contain the attacker in the bus and disable the bus until the Mounties showed up.
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:31 PM
 
3,415 posts, read 4,432,836 times
Reputation: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
I don't think those people have every been on a Greyhound bus, never mind one where a passenger decapitated another. The aisle is probably more narrow than airplanes and more narrow than your typical city bus aisle. This also happened at the back of the bus, so it wouldn't be 35:1 (minus the victim and the perp), but rather 1 on 1 (keep in mind that one has a hunting knife and a lot of those people were elderly and children) 35 times. There is this old battle tactic, I can't remember what it is called, but involved outnumbered soldiers purposely blocking themselves in a narrow area to take away the numerical advantage of the enemy by basically forcing them to fight only a few soldiers at a time. Like in the movie 300.

Also, keep in mind that this passenger wasn't acting strange or threatening at any time previously and it was during the night for what had been a bus ride that had been a few days for many of the people on the bus. Even the first guy to realize what happened said that it took him a few seconds to realize that there a was a stabbing taking place and he was sitting right infront of them as well. How were the other 35 passengers supposed to know what exactly was going on?

I've heard a lot people compare the United 93 passengers to the bus riders. It's a pretty lousy comparison. They only took on the hijackers after they learned that several other planes had been hijacked and the fate of those onboard. They knew that they were dead anyways and if they fought back they would have a chance of at least perventing another attack. I should also mention that the hijackers also stabbed several people on United 93 as well and the passengers did not play hero at that moment because they were scared. They only became heros when they learned that even if they wouldn't be able to regain control of the plane, they would at least stop the killing.

Wannabe heroes, keep that in mind.
Not wanna-be heroes Frank. It's just if that murdered man was your son, brother or father we all hope we'd have something better to tell you then that we didn't do anything to try and save him. And if that was your loved one you'd be calling us all cowards, and wishing their had been just one wanna-be heroe among us.
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
4,240 posts, read 6,168,472 times
Reputation: 3713
I think those 34 people on the bus will at some point wonder why they didn't try to stop this nutter. A group of them could have overpowered the killer. Hitting him with carry on bags or whatever while others hit and overpowered him. Hell take off a belt and wrap it around his neck and strangle the SOB. I just cannot see 34 people running out of a bus as this was happening. From the reports when all the pax had exited the bus the driver and someone else held the door shut so the killer couldn't get out. The killer then tried to get the bus going and the driver did something to make the bus inoperable. The whole thing sounds bizarre. Actually Im getting angry writing this, I want some time with this Murderer myself. If this young kid that was murdered was my son they would have a hard time keeping me away from the murderer. I don't think I have ever heard of such a sick murder with witnesses involved.
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:44 PM
 
3,557 posts, read 6,711,281 times
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There's not a whole lot of saving left to do once the first couple of knife strikes are made.

The passengers made sure the guy didn't leave and they made sure he didn't kill anyone else.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:20 PM
 
550 posts, read 816,068 times
Reputation: 123
The guy is mental. He stabbed the guy up to 50 times. He cut off his head and taunted people outside the bus with it by showing it too them. He ate some of the guys flesh. He cut off his nose, lips and ear and put the pieces in his pocket.

In court he asked the judge to kill him. Totally crazy.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:33 AM
 
3,326 posts, read 2,509,334 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by laysayfair View Post
Not wanna-be heroes Frank. It's just if that murdered man was your son, brother or father we all hope we'd have something better to tell you then that we didn't do anything to try and save him. And if that was your loved one you'd be calling us all cowards, and wishing their had been just one wanna-be heroe among us.
I would also be in a state of shock and I would almost certainly would try to think of some possible case of "If only ______ happened, ______ would still be alive".

However that is simply not rational. It happened in at nighttime and most people didn't realize what was going on. I have rode that very same route myself in Greyhound buses and it is a long and boring trip. Since it was also in the night, most people were sleeping or trying to relax. There isn't a lot of light on those buses at night either. So it would have been 34 people (keep in mind that many of them were children, elderly, and a few women as well) running single file down an aisle with low visibility against a pretty big crazy man wielding a hunting knife to "save" a guy who has been stabbed several dozen times already and was more than an hour away from the nearest emergency room.

I used to live in Winnipeg for time (just before I moved to Australia) and the place where the murder took place is a small town (maybe 10,000) that doesn't have a trauma center. The best bet for the young man would be for him to be taken to an emergency facility in Winnipeg (which is more than an hour away). He would have almost certainly bled out in that time.

So forgive if I have a low tolerance to people who are accusing or implying a bunch of people who were mostly sleeping up until a passenger stuck another are cowards or sissies for not doing something that would have been more likely to have resulted in one or more getting killed. The incident was quick, dark, crowded, and at a time when the people were least prepared to put up a fight. I don't look down at them at all.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:53 AM
 
3,326 posts, read 2,509,334 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimrob1 View Post
I think those 34 people on the bus will at some point wonder why they didn't try to stop this nutter. A group of them could have overpowered the killer. Hitting him with carry on bags or whatever while others hit and overpowered him. Hell take off a belt and wrap it around his neck and strangle the SOB. I just cannot see 34 people running out of a bus as this was happening. From the reports when all the pax had exited the bus the driver and someone else held the door shut so the killer couldn't get out. The killer then tried to get the bus going and the driver did something to make the bus inoperable. The whole thing sounds bizarre. Actually Im getting angry writing this, I want some time with this Murderer myself. If this young kid that was murdered was my son they would have a hard time keeping me away from the murderer. I don't think I have ever heard of such a sick murder with witnesses involved.
According to reports there was a woman sitting right across the attacker with a toddler. She reportedly threw her child over several seats ahead to get her child out of danger before running down the aisle herself.

I think it is disgusting that woman did not risk her life to to stop the attack. That was an act of pure cowardice. She should have jumped right into the fray. She might have even been able to use her baby as a shield. You know how toddlers often wear overalls? I figure that would have made an excellent grip and she could have used the baby to protect her forearm and tangle with the attacker. I mean the baby is just one of the passengers who failed to do his or her part in defending the victim and I'm sure if it would have survived its use as body armor, it would have grown up thankful that it was a hero...

What the f--k do you expect from the passengers on the bus?
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