Health care Canada vs US - Experiences, Truths, Myths (health insurance, gated)

[kitty71]

I thought, seeing that health care seems to come up in every other thread, perhaps it would be a good idea to start a separate thread where people can tell about their own or relatives'/friends' experiences.

There is a lot of debate over which country has the better system. Some people base their ideas on mere conjecture with no real basis in truth, some on second person stories and experiences (ie friends and family who have had treatment in Canada), and some on personal experience.

I have lived in both countries, and at this point I feel pretty balanced 50/50 on the Canada/US systems. Let's see what you think - although it would be nice if people could keep it civil - intellectual rather than scathing or insulting.

[MoMark]

I think if you're fully insured with a good and dependable and reputable health care insurance provider that health care is better in the U.S. myself. There are few waits and if I have the need to see a doctor, I can usually get an appointment within a day or two. Over a week is rare and most people go to another doctor if they can't be seen right away. Also, if a doctor here doesn't think he can provide everything you need, or feels a procedure can be better performed by another specialist, they usually call that doctor for you and you get a quick referral and appointment. I think it's almost too easy to get a doctor's appointment and people go for the most minor things and waste the doctor's time and their own money. A lot of people leave call back messages on doctor's phone answering services and get callbacks from that doctor if they've been patients before. But for serious illness or genuine conditions that arise, I think here is best.
Now if I were uninsured and had no prosect of consistent genuine coverage, then Canada would offer the better route for sure, even if I had to wait. Having no health coverage in the U.S., especially if you have assets that can be liquified in court actions, means your future is at risk if a health condition arises that is extremely expensive to treat and you have no coverage. You can go bankrupt and end up having to sell your house and going into debt and being hounded by collectors for the rest of your life. That sucks and it's an enormous psychic weight on people's minds. It's better to have nothing if that were to happen so that nothing can be taken from you.
I do remember though when I was poorer than a church mouse on poverty vows living in San Francisco that I threw myself on the free clinic at UCSF where they did my bloodwork for mononucleosis and treated me free of charge and dispensed prescription medication free to me because I had no money and no insurance then. They were also able to see me and treat me the same day I called them. I still remember the free clinic at UCSF with fondness. I'm glad they were there way back then.

[ColdCanadian]

Originally Posted by MoMark

There are few waits and if I have the need to see a doctor, I can usually get an appointment within a day or two. Over a week is rare and most people go to another doctor if they can't be seen right away.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that you can make an appointment to see a doctor within a day or two. Why? How?

(The Canadian health system is obviously the only one I've ever known. )
Sometimes I've been lucky enough to get an appointment within a week and a half.

In Canada, if you need to see any kind specialist, you must go to your family doctor to get a "referal."
Actually, I think you have to see your family doctor before you're allowed to see any other doctor, period.
(except in the case of what we call "walk-in clinics")

This involves making an appointment often weeks in advance to see your family doctor. If and when you get the referal, you start the waiting game all over again, only this time it's waiting weeks or months to see your specialist. If you need a surgery, it's usually another few weeks or months again after that.

Basically if you need something like a non-life threatening surgery, you can expect it to be dealt with within a total of 6-8 months. However sometimes it takes longer than that.

[dreameyes]

Hi there I don't think I really have much intellectual to say but I thought I'd give my two cents on the issue.
I grew up in Edmonton and when I was young I had a very serious virus. The care I received was excellent and prompt (but the fact that it was life threatening may have had something to do with the promptness) I had a very loving mother who begged and pleaded (literally) with the doctors that I was not a "vegetable" I am convinced that if I was alone and did not have such a strong voice on my behalf that the doctor's may have somewhat given up on me. Now I'm not sure if this doesn't border on the issue of doctor apathy but I'm quite confident that my mom wouldn't of had to "convince" the doctors to help me if I had been where I now live. However the treatment and rehab I received was excellent. I had a couple of MRI's and other specialized treatments and each time I made an appointment I had to wait 3 weeks to a month. Even with regular doctor visits there was quite a wait. I've heard from family and friends still there that the wait is only becoming worse.
After I moved to the US I had to have an appendectomy. The care I received was top notch. I was very impressed with the promptness of it. I went in Sunday afternoon and Sunday evening I was missing an organ. Now I somewhat wonder if I had been in Edmonton if the situation would've been somewhat more grim.
The care I received with my two kids was excellent. Everything was top notch and I was very impressed. I have friends in Canada that have told me about their experiences and they just don't seem to equal the quality. Everything went well and I'm sure the doctor's were as knowledgeable; the main problem is the time it takes to get that care.
The US healthcare system is very expensive (and I know we didn't have insurance for any of those instances) but overall the quality and promptness is superior to Canada. Contrary to some Canadians belief doctor's cannot legally refuse you care here if you cannot pay and there are ways to receive financial help for hospital bills. And no Canada's healthcare system is NOT free. It's just hidden in taxes.

[MoMark]

You're right Dreameyes. You cannot be refused treatment because of inability to pay. But if you have ability to pay, you will be pursued mercilessly until you do or file bankruptcy for court protection from the debt. I was in emergency in May 06 barely able to breathe with horrendous pneumonia and while I'm attached to a breathing apparatus and leads are being attached to my chest and monitoring equipment is being added everywhere, I'm on my cell phone gasping into the receiver talking to a Blue Cross Blue Shield representative and letting her know my name, my medical card ID info./number, and that I'm in Emergency being admitted on doctor's orders into the hospital. She was fine, took the info. down, assured me I had done my part, and that as that.
However, I had read on my medical card that the insurer could refuse coverage if I became hospitalized and didn't immediately inform them upon admittance. So I'm on the verge of croaking and on the phone with them! I don't think that's right!
When I got out of the hospital four and a half days later, the billed cost for the stay turned out to be just under $20,000. I would get the constant receipts of breakdowns from BCBS then it would show what they were billed and what they paid. It turned out that BCBS was able to halve the bill and I ended up paying $75 out of my own pocket in the end.
It goes to show that U.S. costs are at least 50% overbloated. If I had been uninsured and billed, I'd have been legally obligated to pay the full $20,000. Why should there be a difference?
Also, while I was in Emergency a homeless woman was brought in. I'm not sure what was wrong with her. I think she just wanted a warm place to sleep as she couldn't identify what the issue was. I know that she didn't pay

[Blue Grass Fever]

I know this thread is about healthcare between the two nations but i have to ask this: "Has anyone ever spent any considerable amount of time in each of the two cities mentioned?" (Detroit and Windsor)

The two cities can make for a good case study.

It seems to me that everyone is better taken care of in Windsor compared to Detroit. I imagine Canada on the whole is better off when it comes to poverty/health insurance and so forth.

So i raise the question, "What really makes/is the difference between the two nations? Is it the governmental foundations?"

[mefeelinfroggy]

I am currently a Canadian Resident. I have been in this country for 3 years. I think that everyone complaining about other country's medical, political, and anything else they can fester up is just crazy.


I lived in the states for 33 years. Had my job in the states where I was given very good health insurance. I had to pay 20% of every medical bill, medication, eye exam, and dental.

So in 3 years the money I payed on my co-pays in America is about the same amount of money I pay for my meds in Canada.

In the states the 1st question they ask you "Do you have insurance?" They up their price to get more out of the insurance companies.

In Canada the first question is "Can I have your health card." Before I had my health card it was only $48.50 (CANADIAN) to go to the doctor. I could go to the doctor in the US and my co-pay was around $40.00 (AMERICAN) Not much difference there. A little but nothing to jump up and down about.

If you are in Canada and you need medical attention it does take some time to get in to see the doctor. But if it is an emergency they will fit you in ASAP. If you need hospital care like a surgery it can take much longer for non life threatening issues. But if you are dying.... they will get you in ASAP.

I find a problem in Canada is when you live in rural areas the doctors don't want to go to the "boonies" to work after med school. They want to stay in Toronto or the other larger cities. I can't say that I blame them, but doctors are scarce.

[dullnboring]

This is a very interesting read. I was going to start a thread specifically relating to health care differences between the two countries myself. It's good to hear differing viewpoints from Canadians and Americans who have lived in both countries or who have experiences with those who have. While there's a difference of opinions as to which system as a whole is better, there seems to be a general consensus that it generally takes a long(er) time to see a doctor in Canada than in the U.S. This is something that I had never heard before and find surprising. I have a few questions on the matter:

1. I do not have a family doctor here in U.S. If I ever have to go to the doctor, which is rare (twice in five years), I go to an Urgent Care facilitiy, which is basically like a Walk-In clinic, pay my $20 co-pay, fill out some forms and will see a doctor that day (the wait time varies from 30 minutes to a few hours), be examined and then sent a bill a few weeks later (I have health insurance). Do such facilities not exist in Canada? I mean, if you are in the moment feeling very ill, are there places outside of ERs where you can go and be seen by a doctor within the same day or is that unheard of?

2. How do dentists and eye doctors fit into the mix? Is it the same level of difficulty to schedule an appointment. Scheduling an appointment that diverts from the pre-set schedule (i.e. a teeth cleaning every six months) generally will have to be done several weeks in advance, although nine times out of ten it seems that an opening pops up some time before then that they will call you and inform you of, giving you the opportunity to come in.

From what I've read, I think both systems have some serious flaws in them and could learn a bit from each other.

[ontheroad]

I don't know how health care is provided in Canada, so this is interesting.

However, in NY, you can wait much more than a week, sometimes, as much as a month for some physicians, and more than that for a specialized test or a specialist. My co-pay was reasonable in my most recent position, $15.00 I believe, and my primary physician very amenable for immediate referrals provided she saw me and we didn't hit each other. Why hit each other? Well, I've been in the medical profession or allied health profession nearly my whole life, and she was the single physician that challenged my choices or my self-diagnoses.

Surgical and dental coverage was vastly different. Surgery I believe was 80% covered, but that didn't always cover all that is required for out-patient care. Dental care is covered at the lowest rate, with eye care somewhere on the same rung. Prescription coverage varied from $5.00 to $25.00 for non-generic drugs.

Conversely, when I lived in a country similar to Canada, with social medicine, or universal care as we call it, I paid nothing for all house visits, office visits, pharmaceutical costs, etc. Fortunately, we were never ill so it was only child-related ped care that we used. I believe our total tax p/a was about 38%. This percentage covered our universal health care.

Earlier when working at medical schools I had nearly immediate access to physicians; and even abroad, about 40% of my colleagues and friends were physicians, so I also probably received some special treatment ~ occasionally and professional courtesy, sometimes!

I preferred paying more taxes and not having to pay for health insurance over and above taxation. I believe I paid as much tax in the States as I did abroad.

[dreameyes]

There are definately walk in clinics in Edmonton that I know of. In fact the doctor that I went to on a regular basis worked in a walk in clinic.
I burned my finger really bad once and had to go to the clinic to have it wrapped. I went there actually several times without appointments.
Eye doctors! Worse than medical doctors. My eye appointments always had to be booked about a month in advance.
Dentists about the same as doctors. Usually 2-3 weeks.