Illegal immigration in Canada? (hardwood floors, for sale, job market)

[edwardius]

In most large US cities you have substantial populations of illegal immigrants, usually from central america, but also to a lesser extent from asia and elsewhere.

The border between the US and Canada is large and less armoured than the border between the US and Mexico. It seems to me, that if you could make it to Chicago, you could also fairly easily make it to Toronto.

Yet the popular perception in the US, is that there isn't much illegal immigration in Canada. Is the perception true?If there isn't much illegal immigration in Canada, why not?

In the US, the biggest reason that there aren't sweeps against employers suspected of hiring large amounts of illegal immigrants is that the sweeps might also be unfairly discriminating against legal immigrants.

Canadians seems to have similiar concerns about unfair ethnic discrimination. How have they resolved these dilemnas?

[Acajack]

[SIZE=3]Illegal immigration is not really an issue in Canada like it is in the States. At the very most, there might be some controversy every once in a while regarding the odd “bogus” refugee claimant, but nowhere near the huge political and social issue immigration is in the U.S.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Contrary to the U.S., Canada does not border a significantly poorer country. Canada borders... the U.S., and the standard of living between the two is quite similar.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Regarding the possibility of someone making it over the Rio Grande and up to Chicago, then trying to make it over the border into Canada... why run the risk? As I said already, the standard of living on both sides of the border is very similar. You’re already in the United States of America, which is 10 times bigger than Canada in population. There are lots of places you can go in the U.S. without having to run the risk of getting caught at the border (either by Canadian or American guards) and being sent back to Mexico. [/SIZE]

[ajau]

Fact of the matter is that plenty of our immigrants, both legal and illegal, have the US as a final destination. It might not make much practical sense for many circumstances, but the "Golden Country" is more of a destination than Canada for many.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ajau

Fact of the matter is that plenty of our immigrants, both legal and illegal, have the US as a final destination. It might not make much practical sense for many circumstances, but the "Golden Country" is more of a destination than Canada for many.

Good point by Ajau. Not much illegal immigration traffic from the U.S. to Canada, but there is quite a bit of illegal immigration traffic (though it is miniscule compared to the border with Mexico) from Canada to the U.S., since Canada is perceived as easier to get into than the States. Then once you're here, it's not that difficult to get across the border to the U.S. (at least compared to crossing from Mexico).

[zxcv]

Originally Posted by ajau

Fact of the matter is that plenty of our immigrants, both legal and illegal, have the US as a final destination. It might not make much practical sense for many circumstances, but the "Golden Country" is more of a destination than Canada for many.

You are unfortunately almost right but you know where you are wrong? The fact that people emmigrating to Canada have US as final destination. That's not true most of the time : I did not have this in my mind when I emmigrated to Canada but I had to do it after a couple of years because I found a Chino-India not a Canada country. Please don't get me racist, cause I'm not, I agree to let them emmigrate too, but when they become a majority (check Toronto and GTA for exp.) it's bothering. If I want them to be a majority I would emmigrate in India or China...
At least US is trying to control the percent of any race which immigrate here and they have some programms which ARE NOT ALLOWED for the above mention nations like DIversity Visas. It's not a matter of being racist, it's just a matter of how many....

[househuntinggal]

Originally Posted by zxcv

You are unfortunately almost right but you know where you are wrong? The fact that people emmigrating to Canada have US as final destination. That's not true most of the time : I did not have this in my mind when I emmigrated to Canada but I had to do it after a couple of years because I found a Chino-India not a Canada country. Please don't get me racist, cause I'm not, I agree to let them emmigrate too, but when they become a majority (check Toronto and GTA for exp.) it's bothering. If I want them to be a majority I would emmigrate in India or China...
At least US is trying to control the percent of any race which immigrate here and they have some programms which ARE NOT ALLOWED for the above mention nations like DIversity Visas. It's not a matter of being racist, it's just a matter of how many....

Sorry, but I don't think you know what being racist means, you appear to be a racist (I only glean this from this one post). Canada's immigration policies are much more exclusive and it is actually harder to get into Canada than the US. To get into Canada (legally, of course) you have to have education, job skills, etc before you get there, that is the basis of granting immigration. Whereas, in US, anyone can get in if they are willing to wait in line (its a longer line for those with less education etc). So if Canada wants to admit Indians and Chinese who are educated professionals that can start working and contributing to society as soon as they arrive, so be it. And if most of the immigrants want to move to established cities that have jobs available, so be it. Maybe you should have moved to the mid-West of Canada, where there are less Indians and Chinese....but then you would probably have a problem with the high numbers of Native Peoples that live there with all the white folks! Too bad for you!

I grew up in Canada, and now have lived in the US for 5 years. My husband and I often wonder whether we will stay here. Although I have not experienced any racism here, the culture in the US is not as inclusive as what I experienced in Canada, you can see it playing out currently in the election media. There are lots of opportunities here in the US, but this country has a long way to go.

So maybe the US is the place for you afterall!!

[edwardius]

In the US if one was to propose that immigration should be restricted to the well educated and those wealthy enough to create jobs in the US, those advocating that position would have been demonized for being racist. The charge would be something to the effect that first citizenship should not be for sale to the highest bidder and secondly the real purpose of such legislation was to keep out the brown folks. In the US when the Republican party argues for enforcing the existing US immigration laws, which are much less restrictive than Canada's they are accused of being racist.

Yet the perception in the US is that Canada is in general further to the left than the US in general. So how did the more leftist country permit, the more restrictive immigration policies (keeping out the poor, the uneducated, etc). When it came time to decide how many people should be let into Canada, what prevented the left from arguing that all of the slots should be filled by refugees? In the US, the immigrant rights advocates would definitely be arguing for that if for no other reason than to expand their base. Why didn't that happen in Canada?

[househuntinggal]

Originally Posted by edwardius

In the US if one was to propose that immigration should be restricted to the well educated and those wealthy enough to create jobs in the US, those advocating that position would have been demonized for being racist. The charge would be something to the effect that first citizenship should not be for sale to the highest bidder and secondly the real purpose of such legislation was to keep out the brown folks. In the US when the Republican party argues for enforcing the existing US immigration laws, which are much less restrictive than Canada's they are accused of being racist.

Yet the perception in the US is that Canada is in general further to the left than the US in general. So how did the more leftist country permit, the more restrictive immigration policies (keeping out the poor, the uneducated, etc). When it came time to decide how many people should be let into Canada, what prevented the left from arguing that all of the slots should be filled by refugees? In the US, the immigrant rights advocates would definitely be arguing for that if for no other reason than to expand their base. Why didn't that happen in Canada?

Yes, the difference in immigration policies is striking isn't it....but I think more important is how new immigrants are treated once they are actually there, US or Canada. There should be a middle ground between the US "melting pot" where its somewhat looked down upon to keep your native culture, or the Canadian "multicultarism" where you are sometimes not strongly enough encouraged to adapt to Canadian culture.

Being an immigrant to the US myself, I think borders should be secure, there is a long line of folks wanting in, the legal way. My immigration to US took 11 years, and I came from Canada! (We were in "family class", which takes a long time) But I think its pretty funny when people want to ban illegal immigrants, when without them many industries in the US would not be able to survive.

[zxcv]

Originally Posted by househuntinggal

Sorry, but I don't think you know what being racist means, you appear to be a racist (I only glean this from this one post). Canada's immigration policies are much more exclusive and it is actually harder to get into Canada than the US. To get into Canada (legally, of course) you have to have education, job skills, etc before you get there, that is the basis of granting immigration. Whereas, in US, anyone can get in if they are willing to wait in line (its a longer line for those with less education etc). So if Canada wants to admit Indians and Chinese who are educated professionals that can start working and contributing to society as soon as they arrive, so be it. And if most of the immigrants want to move to established cities that have jobs available, so be it. Maybe you should have moved to the mid-West of Canada, where there are less Indians and Chinese....but then you would probably have a problem with the high numbers of Native Peoples that live there with all the white folks! Too bad for you!

I grew up in Canada, and now have lived in the US for 5 years. My husband and I often wonder whether we will stay here. Although I have not experienced any racism here, the culture in the US is not as inclusive as what I experienced in Canada, you can see it playing out currently in the election media. There are lots of opportunities here in the US, but this country has a long way to go.

So maybe the US is the place for you afterall!!

No, I'm not a racist at all, my point is like other immigrants coming from Europe, we do not leave our parents,sisters and brothers, friends, culture, spirituals, to come in Canada and leave among chinese and indian people. We do not have a chance to learn even English correctly!!! not to mention other things! Then why did we make such a big compromise?

Are you saying what if Canada admit only educated professionals chinese and indians? Nothing wrong with the educated part, except : does Canada still have the job market to absorb these well educated people? No, not at all, at last in the last 5-6 years. That's why it's very hard as a non-chinese or non-indian to get a job becasue they have "networking" everywhere and get everything, they have companies own by themselves, speak their own language and don;t want an outsider to bother them(1% minority rule is a good joke right now for them). If you are lucky and get one, the salary will be miserable but you will have to accept it otherwise homeless will be your first name.
So, there is another part of well educated people(guess where are they coming from ?) who have to work in low level jobs where evidently they cannot use their elevated skills. So what happens then? They feel fustrated and most of them return back to their country. So, what do you think?
Isn't better US programm where they bring people with skills to work in Starbucks, carpenter, trucker, etc ? Why would you need an engineer to put hardwood floors or to serve you a coffee or a doctor to drive a taxi ?

[edwardius]

In Canada, you have socialized medicine. If Canada was allowing the poor to come from the third world to take advantage of free health care, how long do you think there would be support for either immigration or socialized medicine? Or is Canada left enough where that wouldn't be considered a problem?

Personally this is the reason, I doubt that the US will ever allow socialized medicine. Too much domestic resentment of funding social services to poor immigrant populations and a complete inability politically to take steps to limit illegal immigration.

In the US there is still widespread support for legal immigration. Personally I see a lot of advantages to the Canadian model. It was well educated immigrants who founded Google, Intel, etc. Highly educated immigrants have trade networks back in the previous countries that are useful for creating their own employment opportunties in the US. If Taiwan is going to pay to educate someone through college and then during their highest tax paying years, they want to move to the US, I would think that is an advantage for the US.

It the uneducated who are joining gangs, not the guys with Phd's. Why wouldn't you want these people in your country?