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Now I want you to know I'm not trying to hassle you here, I'm just trying to make a point about something by picking out and bolding some of the things you said in reply to me.
Your post indicates to me that you don't think of me or Canadians or yourself or other Americans as individual persons. It indicates to me that you think of people in terms of being political entities. Now this is a trait that I have noticed in all Americans - they define themselves and other people by their political status, or what they assume other people's political status is. People are labelled. They are liberal or conservative or far right or far left or right wingers or left wingers or centrist or left of centre or right of centre. Or they are apathetic, as in voter apathy. These are all labels used to define people by their political leanings, and often these labels get used to describe people's lifestyles, or used as expletives to express disgust or displeasure, like swear words, depending on who's using the labels. America has an entire vocabulary to identify with people in connection with politics.
Whatever happened to people just being people without any political affiliations or beliefs that are influenced by politics? When did people stop being people and become political entities whose lives are ruled by politics?
I won't call you any kind of conservative because I don't think of you as any kind of conservative. I think of you as a person. I'm not particularly interested in how you define yourself politically or what your political interests are, I'm more interested in how you define yourself as a person, a unique individual who is one of a kind, just like I am a unique individual and expect to be perceived that way.
You said you thought I was a liberal because of the things that I said. You were wrong about that. I have no political affiliation and don't identify myself with politics just as I don't identify other people by their politics.
The reason I'm mentioning all this is because I had said in my earlier post that most Canadians aren't obsessed with politics the way Americans are. When we meet people we don't want to know what their politics are. We want to know who the people are, what they do, what their hobbies and interests are, what they like to eat, what they do for fun and excitement, etc. We don't care about what their politics are. Politics is a private thing with the majority of Canadians. Something you and I are in agreement about is what you said ..... "If someone feels the need to talk about it and then bash me for something I did or didn't do ..... then are they even worth talking to in the first place?"
If you and I ever meet each other (which I doubt would happen, but if ....) I won't ask you about your political beliefs and if you ask me about mine I will tell you that is private and not something I'm willing to discuss. That attitude might leave some Americans feeling totally off balance and at a loss for words because they would be pushed to try to find some kind of common ground to identify with. The real common ground would be in the discussion about other things that makes each one of us a unique individual apart from our politics.
One other thing, just as an afterthought. We don't have to identify ourselves with any particular political party when we register to vote in Federal elections the way you have to in America. I can't begin to express how shocked I was when I learned you have to do that in America. Such an invasion of privacy.
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I loved this post but just wanted to add that from my observations, people here certainly do discuss politics at some point but it isn't so much about political party affiliations, or wrapping people up in tidy little boxes with words like small "l" liberals or socialism and communism. The way they talk about politics is more along the lines of what they think the government, whoever that may be, is doing wrong. And of course the men in the BS section of the local cafes always have the answers to the world's problems .
I've also found that conservatively (small 'c') minded people are much more likely to discuss their political views before knowing whether the people hearing their views, share those views.
At which point, I sometimes give a cautious little cough, and say with a smile that I'm so far left, I fall off the scale of existing parties, and just move the conversation to something else. It's not that I actually am so far left, but it's my attempt to politely advise whoever, that if the conversation continues along that path, at some point I might have to point out their wrongheadedness or I simply couldn't live with myself .
I've also found that conservatively (small 'c') minded people are much more likely to discuss their political views before knowing whether the people hearing their views, share those views.
Many of us don't care if people share our views. We spent so long being silenced and marginalized by those opposed to our ideas that we now feel empowered to speak out whatever others may think or believe. Such is the messy business of democracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit
At which point, I sometimes give a cautious little cough, and say with a smile that I'm so far left, I fall off the scale of existing parties, and just move the conversation to something else. It's not that I actually am so far left, but it's my attempt to politely advise whoever, that if the conversation continues along that path, at some point I might have to point out their wrongheadedness or I simply couldn't live with myself . [Emphasis added.]
Well, we wouldn't want anyone to dissent from your obviously correct and inassailable positions, now would we?
Oh yes, all this may or may not be true. The OP's points. At the sametime, there are more Canadian's living in "the states," then Vancouver, Calgary, and Toronto combined. There are more Canadian's living here, because "here" is better. Slice it, dice it, chop it and spin doctor what you will. Canadian's live in the US in DROVES, because the US is MUCH better then what they have. Period. End of story.
Oh yes, all this may or may not be true. The OP's points. At the sametime, there are more Canadian's living in "the states," then Vancouver, Calgary, and Toronto combined. There are more Canadian's living here, because "here" is better. Slice it, dice it, chop it and spin doctor what you will. Canadian's live in the US in DROVES, because the US is MUCH better then what they have. Period. End of story.
End of story, eh? ROTFLMAO
Lining in the US may have been at some point better than living in the US in aggregate, and living in the US may currently be better if you're rich. But if you're middle class or poor, living in the US is already much worse than living in Canada, and getting worse and worse every day.
Phil306 should learn how to properly use an apostrophe before making unfounded, uneducated comments. Sadly, his is typical of the mentality shared by many Americans with low education levels. I would also put money on him never having been to Canada.
Whether he's actually visited Canada or not is immaterial to the ongoing discussion, as most, if not all of his slice, dice chop, and spin comments are easily refutable by facts in evidence anywhere he cares to look beyond his 6' X 8' comfort zone.
No, it has nothing to do with censorship or political conservatives or liberals. It's all about the Canadian professional codes of journalism. There is nothing stopping Canadians from watching Fox on TV on American networks or listening to it on American radio stations or reading it online on internet. Fox isn't barred from Canadian consumers, it just isn't sponsored or promoted by Canadian journalism standards and Canadian networks.
Canadian journalism has what is known as the Canadian code of journalistic ethics and standards, also known as the "canons of journalism" that must be maintained in Canada, they must stick to reporting unbiased news based only in truths and facts that are known to be facts. They must conform to the principles of truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity, impartiality, fairness, ethics and public accountability. There can be no political opinions expressed, no propoganda, no misdirection, lies or half-truths and no attempts to persuade media consumers to form opinions not based in facts and facts alone. No yellow journalism or black journalism is allowed in professional Canadian journalism and news reporting.
Fox, and several other so-called media sites in America aren't really professional news sites, they are more like what are called yellow journalism sites, some are even black journalism sites (much worse than yellow). That is to say they have no journalistic standards to conform to, they are biased news sites that cater to America's obsession with sensationalism, bi-partisan politics, propoganda and isolationism, that withhold certain truths, promote certain deceptions, slander and biased opinions and attempt to manipulate and sway the masses in a non-ethical political way. That is not real, unbiased journalism that sticks to the facts and only the facts without expressing biased or unproven opinions and political propoganda.
Yellow and black journalism are forms of political censorship and campaigning in that they report only biased, one sided news designed to manipulate and control their media consumers while withholding truthful information that would otherwise allow the consumers to make well informed and well educated opinions based in truth and facts.
Canadians aren't obsessed with politics and bi-partisan divisiveness the way Americans are so consumed with it. It's just not that important, and American political propoganda, divisiveness, lies and isolationism such as is expressed by news sites like Fox is definitely not important or of interest to the vast majority of Canadians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101
Agreed
If you are coming up to Canada and think you are going to engage Canadians in all your American political baggage you will be talking to yourself in a hurry as most Canadians have no interest in talking about American politics and view sites like Fox news as absurd and akin content-wise to National Enquirer magazine .
As a former longtime American resident i i like to hang out on the political section as a form of comedic entertainment as most of the topics are so bizarre and far out it astounds me that all of the juvenile crap posted there is coming from the supposed apex country of the world..
For those Canadians unfamiliar with the Politics section of CD i highly recommend a visit,Its hilarious
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow
Fox news is not barred from Canada at all. The truth of the matter is that here in Canada you can not lie about public affairs over the airwaves. If you do you will be forced to retract publicly what you said and be fined. If you persist your licence to broadcast will be forfeit and you will be done in the media business. That rules fox out right there because they would not be interested in reporting actual the truth. I have watched lots of Fox and I don't think I have ever heard one single little bit of truth on that network. Zero, nada, none!! Everything is slanted, distorted, misrepresented and false.
I just think it's great that the sepcial interests can't broadcast their POISON, their HATE for their own country and whip up the lunatic fringe the way they have in the USA. Fox is nothing new in the USA. Over a hundred years ago William Randolph Hearst took credit for starting the Spanish American war and he was probably at least half right. That war was the beginning of American imperialism and it's been going on ever since much to the detriment of the country and the people of the USA. We don't need or want a bunch of half witted idiots dictating public policy in this country.
It's a totally different country altogether. Can you imagine a Canadian politician claiming some journalist was unfair, asking a gotch question? LOL. Our government and I mean every single member of it get grilled mercilessly every day in the house of commons. They had better have their thinking caps on or they will be laughed out of office. Not only do they have to answer the questions put to them by the opposition who's main job it is to discredit and embarass the government whenever possible. They are not allowed to lie by the rules of parliament, will be in a heap of trouble if they do and can be forced to produce any documents relating to the question and the answer. It's not unusual at all for a member of the house to be thrown out of the house until such time he comes clean and asks the house's forgiveness for breaking the rules.
That produces a real debate. You Americans do not have any real political debates because your politicians are not answerable to anyone. Because of that fact you have many stuffed shirts elected who don't have a clue about anything at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite
Now I want you to know I'm not trying to hassle you here, I'm just trying to make a point about something by picking out and bolding some of the things you said in reply to me.
Your post indicates to me that you don't think of me or Canadians or yourself or other Americans as individual persons. It indicates to me that you think of people in terms of being political entities. Now this is a trait that I have noticed in all Americans - they define themselves and other people by their political status, or what they assume other people's political status is. People are labelled. They are liberal or conservative or far right or far left or right wingers or left wingers or centrist or left of centre or right of centre. Or they are apathetic, as in voter apathy. These are all labels used to define people by their political leanings, and often these labels get used to describe people's lifestyles, or used as expletives to express disgust or displeasure, like swear words, depending on who's using the labels. America has an entire vocabulary to identify with people in connection with politics.
Whatever happened to people just being people without any political affiliations or beliefs that are influenced by politics? When did people stop being people and become political entities whose lives are ruled by politics?
I won't call you any kind of conservative because I don't think of you as any kind of conservative. I think of you as a person. I'm not particularly interested in how you define yourself politically or what your political interests are, I'm more interested in how you define yourself as a person, a unique individual who is one of a kind, just like I am a unique individual and expect to be perceived that way.
You said you thought I was a liberal because of the things that I said. You were wrong about that. I have no political affiliation and don't identify myself with politics just as I don't identify other people by their politics.
The reason I'm mentioning all this is because I had said in my earlier post that most Canadians aren't obsessed with politics the way Americans are. When we meet people we don't want to know what their politics are. We want to know who the people are, what they do, what their hobbies and interests are, what they like to eat, what they do for fun and excitement, etc. We don't care about what their politics are. Politics is a private thing with the majority of Canadians. Something you and I are in agreement about is what you said ..... "If someone feels the need to talk about it and then bash me for something I did or didn't do ..... then are they even worth talking to in the first place?"
If you and I ever meet each other (which I doubt would happen, but if ....) I won't ask you about your political beliefs and if you ask me about mine I will tell you that is private and not something I'm willing to discuss. That attitude might leave some Americans feeling totally off balance and at a loss for words because they would be pushed to try to find some kind of common ground to identify with. The real common ground would be in the discussion about other things that makes each one of us a unique individual apart from our politics.
One other thing, just as an afterthought. We don't have to identify ourselves with any particular political party when we register to vote in Federal elections the way you have to in America. I can't begin to express how shocked I was when I learned you have to do that in America. Such an invasion of privacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerbilzak
I think you bring up some fantastic points. Especially about the US politicians not being answerable.
I was amazed last time I was in Canada to see how tough the journalists were. I was watching TV in my hotel room, and some political candidate/office holder was on - I don't know who or what side he was on - and he was getting GRILLED the interviewer. That just made me feel all warm and fuzzy because that was the press doing the job the press is supposed to do.
Contrast that to the USA, where the press asks a question, and the responder just blathers on about whatever the heck (s)he feels like, whatever the talking points of the day are, whether or not it has anything remotely to do with the question asked. The press interviewer almost NEVER says, "you didn't answer my question". The press is so wimpy, they really aren't good for anything but milquetoast stories about what's going on in the world.
Also, in the USA, politicians just outright lie constantly, and the only ones who call them on it are fringe outlets like mediamatters.org and truthout. The mainstream press is completely useless for that.
Reading these posts reminded me how much I enjoyed my trips north of the border, especially with the way Americans have literally lost their minds over the post 10 years.
For myself and many of my friends, it felt like a great weight was lifted from our shoulders while we were in Canada.
Canada should follow its own path and should not strive to imitate the US particularly the US of today.
Some Americans have a crab in a bucket mentality. Too many of us have become spoiled brats especially once the Soviets collapsed. Now its all woe is me because other countries are starting to get their act together and are ready and willing to compete.
Still got a few bills to pay off, but as soon as I can, I'm taking another Canadian getaway.
Reading these posts reminded me how much I enjoyed my trips north of the border, especially with the way Americans have literally lost their minds over the post 10 years.
For myself and many of my friends, it felt like a great weight was lifted from our shoulders while we were in Canada.
Canada should follow its own path and should not strive to imitate the US particularly the US of today.
Some Americans have a crab in a bucket mentality. Too many of us have become spoiled brats especially once the Soviets collapsed. Now its all woe is me because other countries are starting to get their act together and are ready and willing to compete.
Still got a few bills to pay off, but as soon as I can, I'm taking another Canadian getaway.
Well we sure will be glad to see you when you get here.
Well we sure will be glad to see you when you get here.
Thanks.
Its incredible the change in atmosphere and attitude one notices just as soon as you go south of the border back into the states.
You Canucks (hope no one finds this offensive, at least my Canadian friends don't) keep up the good work and continuing being a source of inspiration and admiration.
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