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Old 05-30-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,351 posts, read 34,466,848 times
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Q. Why are some cancer researchers now using placebos in clinical trials?

A: In past years, it was generally not necessary or possible to use placebos in cancer clinical trials. This is because most chemotherapy treatments caused obvious tumor shrinkage and striking, sometimes severe, side effects that could not be produced by a “sugar pill.”

However, many of the newer, targeted drugs slow tumor growth but may not cause tumor shrinkage. Testing these drugs requires that clinical trials have a control group, so that researchers can tell whether stabilization of the tumor growth is an effect of the treatment or just reflects the natural behavior of the tumor. Furthermore, many of the newer drugs are given by mouth and have side effects that are hard to distinguish from the symptoms of cancer itself, such as fatigue.

When clinical testing of new a drug begins, it is not known whether the drug will be effective against any kind of cancer. Because new drugs are often tested in patients who have already received all known, effective treatments, comparing a new drug with a placebo may be appropriate and allows researchers to easily and definitively determine the good and bad effects of the new drug.


https://www.cancer.net/research-and-...linical-trials


My ONLY point, is it can happen and they should check so they know as much as possible going in.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:17 PM
 
9,756 posts, read 7,570,179 times
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Submariner, hoping for the best results for you, sorry it came back.

I had two friends do the clinical trials, both had types of blood cancers, sorry, don't know the details.

One had sworn she would never go to the local university teaching hospital and be used as a guinea pig, but when nothing else would work, she agreed to do a clinical trial. She passed away in a few weeks.

My friend's husband had been close to death several times. He was finally approved for a clinical trial out of state that lasted months. At one point he almost died, then 2 days later he bounced back and now is cancer free. For how long, we don't know, we're calling him our miracle man. He's living a very normal life again.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:33 PM
 
2,858 posts, read 2,098,242 times
Reputation: 6804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I had prostate cancer [a very aggressive form of that cancer] surgically removed 4 years ago. Then it came back a few months ago, so now I am in radiation and hormone therapy. I am near the end of nine weeks of daily radiation. As my oncologist said yesterday, the surgery delayed the cancer and gave me an additional 4 years of a healthy standard of living. My current radiation and hormone treatment should give me another 3 or 4 years of doing okay. Then it may come back again. My cancer is already stage 4, so if it comes back, it will likely be scattered in my bones through-out my body. Then we start the ever increasing doses of pain meds.

The surgery, the radiation and hormone stuff delay the cancer. The cancer might just decide to stop, or it might decide to come back after a couple years. These treatments just buy you a couple years each time.

Until you reach the point where all you can do is pain meds.

My oncologist was complaining about the government restricting his ability to prescribe pain meds. As an oncologist all of his patients have cancer, and in most cases the procedures only delay the cancer growth. Eventually many cancer patients will get to the point where they are in terrible pain and the only thing left for the medical profession is to hand out opiates.
which state has limited prescribing for malignant pain?
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,263 posts, read 61,014,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old fed View Post
which state has limited prescribing for malignant pain?
I live in Maine
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Old 06-01-2018, 04:06 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 3,467,190 times
Reputation: 5287
It's important to understand what phase of trial you'll be in. Most likely a Phase III. Keep in mind that most Phase III trials fail. Don't expect (but still hope for?) miracle cures. At the same time, Phase III trials don't have too much risk of harm.

I do think physicians (and ACS and others) push trials a bit too hard. But there's money to be made because the sponsors pay heavily for the patients, so docs and hospitals can earn a tidy profit? How do I know? Because I reviewed and negotiated clinical trial agreements for years.
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Old 06-01-2018, 04:24 PM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,622,103 times
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A friend who participated in a clinical drug trial for cancer in his sinus passages went into remission and has been cancer free for 10+ years. It does happen.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:37 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,606 posts, read 26,506,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
You're wrong. Placebo alone is never used in cancer trials, because it would be unethical.
Exactly.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:47 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 3,467,190 times
Reputation: 5287
Not so fast in disagreeing with others. A trial, probably a Phase II, aimed initially at terminal patients, could well use placebo controls when no other treatment options are available. Could even be a Phase III. All depends on the standard of care for the target population, and is handled by the entry criteria.

Sometimes trials have been done overseas (India being a common place) when the study designers want a treatment naive population. That wouldn't happen in the US, of course, and is a bit beyond the scope of this discussion, but be aware.

Lots of possibilities in clinical trial design.
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Old 06-02-2018, 02:53 PM
 
11,154 posts, read 15,925,131 times
Reputation: 29777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
Q. Why are some cancer researchers now using placebos in clinical trials?

A: In past years, it was generally not necessary or possible to use placebos in cancer clinical trials. This is because most chemotherapy treatments caused obvious tumor shrinkage and striking, sometimes severe, side effects that could not be produced by a “sugar pill.”

However, many of the newer, targeted drugs slow tumor growth but may not cause tumor shrinkage. Testing these drugs requires that clinical trials have a control group, so that researchers can tell whether stabilization of the tumor growth is an effect of the treatment or just reflects the natural behavior of the tumor. Furthermore, many of the newer drugs are given by mouth and have side effects that are hard to distinguish from the symptoms of cancer itself, such as fatigue.

When clinical testing of new a drug begins, it is not known whether the drug will be effective against any kind of cancer. Because new drugs are often tested in patients who have already received all known, effective treatments, comparing a new drug with a placebo may be appropriate and allows researchers to easily and definitively determine the good and bad effects of the new drug.


https://www.cancer.net/research-and-...linical-trials


My ONLY point, is it can happen and they should check so they know as much as possible going in.
How could you possibly C&P that Q&A, and completely ignore the very first paragraph from your link??!!

To wit:

A placebo is an inactive drug or treatment used in a clinical trial. It is sometimes referred to as a “sugar pill.” A placebo-controlled trial compares a new treatment with a placebo. The placebo is usually combined with standard treatment in most cancer clinical trials. People who receive a placebo are in the control group.

Not only that, but you completely ignored the second paragraph as well:

The use of placebos in cancer clinical trials is rare. When a placebo is used in a study, it is done with the full knowledge of the participants.
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:55 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 3,467,190 times
Reputation: 5287
MMB, your response is a complete over-reaction. Mikala never said placebo controls in oncology are common, so your concern over eliminating the "rare" comment (more of an accusation?) is unwarranted. Why does it concern you so much?

Regarding your bolded "full knowledge" you do know that full knowledge is required for any trial, do you not?
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