U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness > Cancer
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-05-2010, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,070 posts, read 8,771,174 times
Reputation: 1627

Advertisements

COLLEGE STATION -- Breast cancer cells - even the most aggressive type - died after treatments with peach and plum extracts in lab tests at Texas AgriLife Research recently, and scientists say the results are deliciously promising. Not only did the cancerous cells keel over, but the normal cells were not harmed in the process.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-05-2010, 07:10 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,533 posts, read 29,257,812 times
Reputation: 21265
Oh don't worry. They will bury this research and eventually discount it and call it snake oil. They always do whenever something works. You can't make TRILLIONS of dollars with peaches and plums.

20yrsinBranson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2010, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,738 posts, read 47,525,692 times
Reputation: 17594
They may however extract the chemical, figure out how to synthesyze it, patent it and then force the DEA to hammer anyhone marketing peaches and plums.

That is the story behind: Willow - Aspirin; and rice fungus - Lovastatin
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2010, 01:50 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,533 posts, read 29,257,812 times
Reputation: 21265
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
They may however extract the chemical, figure out how to synthesyze it, patent it and then force the DEA to hammer anyhone marketing peaches and plums.

That is the story behind: Willow - Aspirin; and rice fungus - Lovastatin
Willow - no side effects. Aspirin - gastrointestinal ulcers, stomach bleeding, and tinnitus.

Rice Fungus (aka Red Yeast Rice) - gas, minor stomach discomfort and occasional heartburn. Lovastatin - muscle pain and weakness and liver problems, erectile dysfunction, loss of memory, insomnia, personality changes, irritability and headaches, nausea and fever.

Medicine cannot improve on nature.

20yrsinBranson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,070 posts, read 8,771,174 times
Reputation: 1627
I would sure jump at something that had side effects if I had cancer, before I'd go through chemo.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2010, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
3,466 posts, read 4,358,792 times
Reputation: 4471
Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's necessarily better or safer than something that has been isolated, synthesized, or purified. Red yeast rice containing the active ingredient in lovastatin is just as harmful as lovastatin and if uncontrolled or unregulated can be dangerous:

Elsevier

The overall mistrust of science in general and medicine in particular is understandable, but unfortunate. Like any field, there are those who act immorally, but scientists are as honest and moral as society on the whole. The use of the scientific method and double-blind studies is effective. I contend that scientifically tested cures--be they based on natural or synthesized chemicals--is vastly superior to scientifically untested ones.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2010, 03:07 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,533 posts, read 29,257,812 times
Reputation: 21265
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom View Post
Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's necessarily better or safer than something that has been isolated, synthesized, or purified. Red yeast rice containing the active ingredient in lovastatin is just as harmful as lovastatin and if uncontrolled or unregulated can be dangerous:
I am not aware of any instance where Red Yeast Rice has caused fatal muscle wasting as statins have. If you are aware of this happening, please give me this information.

One of the reasons that I am reasonably certain that this has never occurred is because if it HAD - unlike prescribed statins, Red Yeast Rice would have been pulled off the market IMMEDIATELY and demonized by conventional medicine in the same fashion that Tryptophan and Ephedra were demonized in the 1980s. Unjustifiably, I might add.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1280040/Statins-The-effects-worse-feared.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

20yrsinBranson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2010, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
3,466 posts, read 4,358,792 times
Reputation: 4471
I am not a medical doctor, and am unfamiliar with the literature on statins or red yeast rice. This is simply from the literature and found through a brief (< 5min) google search.

Symptomatic Myopathy due to Red Yeast Rice — Ann Intern Med

from the link:

Background: Red yeast rice is a dietary supplement that contains 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A (HMG-CoA) reductase inhibitors and is used for self-treatment of hyperlipidemia.


Objective: To report a case of symptomatic myopathy associated with use of red yeast rice


----


This case, as far as I can tell, is not fatal, but clearly demonstrates a risk.



My qualm with your statement wasn't the specific case of statins or aspirin, but rather the general statement:


Medicine cannot improve on nature.



Which belies a general distrust of science (I assume you mean chemistry cannot improve on nature, because even the use of red yeast rice or willow bark is a form of medicine) and a general belief--not one you necessarily espouse--that any natural supplement cannot cause serious harm or death.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2010, 05:07 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,533 posts, read 29,257,812 times
Reputation: 21265
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom View Post
I am not a medical doctor, and am unfamiliar with the literature on statins or red yeast rice. This is simply from the literature and found through a brief (< 5min) google search.

Symptomatic Myopathy due to Red Yeast Rice — Ann Intern Med

from the link:

Background: Red yeast rice is a dietary supplement that contains 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A (HMG-CoA) reductase inhibitors and is used for self-treatment of hyperlipidemia.


Objective: To report a case of symptomatic myopathy associated with use of red yeast rice


----


This case, as far as I can tell, is not fatal, but clearly demonstrates a risk.



My qualm with your statement wasn't the specific case of statins or aspirin, but rather the general statement:


Medicine cannot improve on nature.



Which belies a general distrust of science (I assume you mean chemistry cannot improve on nature, because even the use of red yeast rice or willow bark is a form of medicine) and a general belief--not one you necessarily espouse--that any natural supplement cannot cause serious harm or death.
Did you read the whole article? I didn't because I didn't want to pay for it, so I am assuming you did not read it either and are just going by the headline.

After reading the few paragraphs (which said nothing about Symptomatic Myopathy, I would have to read the entire article before I could even understand what they are talking about and the CIRCUMSTANCES surrounding the diagnosis.

As for natural supplements causing serious harm - of course they can. Vitamin A can be toxic if taken in very large quantities. Even something as benign as potassium or magnesium can kill you if you take enough to interfere with electrolyte balance in the body.

My point in response to the OP is that conventional medicine will find a way to capitalize economically on this finding or they will discount and bury it. Simple as that.

20yrsinBranson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2010, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
3,466 posts, read 4,358,792 times
Reputation: 4471
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Did you read the whole article? I didn't because I didn't want to pay for it, so I am assuming you did not read it either and are just going by the headline.

After reading the few paragraphs (which said nothing about Symptomatic Myopathy, I would have to read the entire article before I could even understand what they are talking about and the CIRCUMSTANCES surrounding the diagnosis.

As for natural supplements causing serious harm - of course they can. Vitamin A can be toxic if taken in very large quantities. Even something as benign as potassium or magnesium can kill you if you take enough to interfere with electrolyte balance in the body.

My point in response to the OP is that conventional medicine will find a way to capitalize economically on this finding or they will discount and bury it. Simple as that.

20yrsinBranson
I'm not going to pay for that article either. Someone's not going to give a title and objective sentence like that and then conclude anything substantially different if they want to have their article published, so I don't think any conclusion being drawn is from the objective is faulty.

My point is simply that your statement is very cynical and paints medical researchers and the medical establishment as filled with completely amoral people who's only interest is making money. I understand your sentiment, and know it probably comes from extensive involvement with modern medicine. It just doesn't fit with my impression the people I know who work in those fields (of which there are many in the Boston area) or with scientists in general. It's probably just a case of me being naive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness > Cancer
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top