Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
3,095 posts, read 2,038,399 times
Reputation: 2305
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by howard555
Title of queston: Jury award PI greater than policy limits.
PI = personal injury (case - claim)
Thank you!! Is that too difficult for someone to spell out? I think the context of a lot of these on-line conversations is lost due to all the acronyms and initials used.
Why odd? Not when you are trying to guess whether to go to trial and what are the possibilities if the jury returns greater than the policy limits.
Low coverage and too low to have garnish-able assets? The minimum coverage in many states is $30,000 or less.
The $40,000 was just numbers as an example.
No our coverage is not 40 and theirs is not 40 but the extra via an award might be 5-10K.
Because, generally speaking, Jim from marketing that lives a middle class lifestyle and owns a home and leases a Camry is going to carry 10X the minimum coverage or thereabouts.
People that carry minimum coverage (usually) do so because its all they can afford, and don't have anything worth protecting in the first place, and since they don't have notable assets and don't have any money, then why bother suing in the first place?
On the other hand, Tom that works for a contractor doing labor and earns $14K a year that the IRS knows about and does other odd jobs for extra cash, when he can get them, and has alimony payments, and a truck that runs most of the time, and drinks more than he should and smokes a pack and a half a day, is the guy to have minimum coverage.
You can sue Tom for that extra $10K, and he probably wouldn't hassle with the bankruptcy. But you aren't going to collect from him.
Thank you!! Is that too difficult for someone to spell out? I think the context of a lot of these on-line conversations is lost due to all the acronyms and initials used.
Sorry.
I agree on the acronyms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359
On the other hand, I have had cases where people paid $10K to $15K above policy limits to settle. The cost of the trial has to be factored against the probability of collecting additional compensation IF an excess verdict is even obtained. Usually, you will end up settling for policy limits because a high percentage of people are judgment proof.
So the ones who might settle for more than the limits could do so before a trial even though they would be represented by an attorney (paid by the insurance company) if they go to trial?
Before that there are negotiations between the plaintiff's attorney and the insurance company for the at fault driver(s) to avoid a trial.
What are the top few reasons that a high % (65% - 70%?) of people are judgement proof? Other than unemployed, on fixed income, do not own a home, do not have any financial assets. Personally we know no one few in any of those scenarios.
You have been in court before. When you have had to file suit on behalf of an injured person do you send a copy of the complaint to the defendants insurance company, or does the court do that, or some other way they find out. How many days go by before the insurance would know of the complaint since they would then have the option to begin the discovery part of the process.
So the ones who might settle for more than the limits could do so before a trial even though they would be represented by an attorney (paid by the insurance company) if they go to trial?
Before that there are negotiations between the plaintiff's attorney and the insurance company for the at fault driver(s) to avoid a trial.
Generally such a settlement would always take place before trial. Sometimes, a policyholder with low limits of insurance will have a chat with the attorney hired by the insurance company. He will be informed that the company's limits of $25,000 (or whatever) are insufficient to cover all damages if a verdict is returned for the Plaintiff. He will inform the insured that Plaintiff's counsel has offered to settle for policy limits PLUS another $10,000. Counsel will tell his client that the insurance company is not obligated to pay anything over policy limits because that is all its contract requires it to do. If the insured has some extra money and takes this warning to heart, he/she may offer some additional cash beyond policy limits. In my experience, this is rare. Sometimes, when people do have extra money they just cannot face the fact that they should be expected to part with it. After all, why did they buy car insurance? If Plaintiff's counsel refuses to accept policy limits and they go to trial and lose, the difficulty of discovering their assets and getting a Writ of Execution from the court to seize those assets comes to the foreground. It can be done, but it doesn't happen often. And, it is a lot of trouble and work.
What are the top few reasons that a high % (65% - 70%?) of people are judgement proof? Other than unemployed, on fixed income, do not own a home, do not have any financial assets. Personally we know no one few in any of those scenarios.
1. The filing of bankruptcy. A Chapter 7 bankruptcy will probably eliminate all unsecured debt. Secured debt is a mortgage or a car loan that is secured by the car. Any debt that is secured has priority in a bankruptcy over unsecured debt. A judgment in a personal injury case is unsecured debt. Once bankruptcy is filed an automatic stay goes into effect that prohibits you from proceeding further with a personal injury case until you get permission from the bankruptcy court to do so. You can make motions and get around it. It is not automatic and its not simple.
2. A person living on a disability pension. These are exempt from judgments. A retirement pension may be exempt in some circumstances.
3. Anyone who has the ability to quit a job, get one just like it, and move. Such people are very difficult to collect from. Every time they quit a job, you have to obtain a new garnishment for their new employer.
You have been in court before. When you have had to file suit on behalf of an injured person do you send a copy of the complaint to the defendants insurance company, or does the court do that, or some other way they find out. How many days go by before the insurance would know of the complaint since they would then have the option to begin the discovery part of the process.
Service of Complaint or Process is done in accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure. You or your attorney are responsible. You serve a copy at the Defendant's home either on him/her or upon a person of "suitable age and discretion". Than, to cover your bases you send a copy to the adjuster at the insurance company who is handling the claim. Generally, the other side has twenty days to file an Answer to your Complaint. After this, discovery begins and is conducted also in accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure in your state.*
Take a look at Florida. I think their minimum limits are $15,000. How many segments of the population, regardless of state, always choose the lowest limits allowed or near the lowest.
I've seen cases on some legal websites where people were killed in North Carolina, for example, and their family got the policy limits of $30,000. I guess they may have gone to court for more or just settled and did not pursue legal action for whatever reason.
I thought FL was 10K......
True story regarding a judgment in Florida against a former employee:
DUI case, 52 yr old guy hit/injured someone. He is arrested, lost his license. The car was his only asset, lives with his mom. Judgment proof right? They get a judgment against him for about 40K, plus interest accruing. Fast forward 3 years, his out of state dad died and leaves him about 100K. He puts it in a bank account and is living on easy street........lawyers garnish the account, get the judgment paid in full!
True story regarding a judgment in Florida against a former employee:
DUI case, 52 yr old guy hit/injured someone. He is arrested, lost his license. The car was his only asset, lives with his mom. Judgment proof right? They get a judgment against him for about 40K, plus interest accruing. Fast forward 3 years, his out of state dad died and leaves him about 100K. He puts it in a bank account and is living on easy street........lawyers garnish the account, get the judgment paid in full! :eek:
It certainly can happen. However, events like that are rare. Winning the lottery is rare too.
The best course of action for anyone is to purchase high limits of underinsured motorist coverage. If you get in an accident with a driver with low insurance limits, you can look to your own insurance company for fair compensation. Anything else is a crap shoot.
Sorry. What are the top few reasons that a high % (65% - 70%?) of people are judgement proof? Other than unemployed, on fixed income, do not own a home, do not have any financial assets. Personally we know no one few in any of those scenarios.
]
Your asking the wrong question. I'm sure that most people that carry nothing more than the required minimums are mostly judgement proof, since they can't afford much more than the required minimums anyway and clearly aren't worried about protecting anything beyond that. The example of a guy that lives with his mom and owns only his car, is typical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S
The car was his only asset, lives with his mom.
The "typical" car insurance arrangement (as typical as they get anyway) is a $250K policy limit for bodily injury.
Now pose the question again: How likely is it, and is it worth the time, hassle, and expense of a trial, where you're not guaranteed to win mind you, to come out with $265K instead of $250K RIGHT NOW.
"Service of Complaint or Process is done in accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure. You or your attorney are responsible. You serve a copy at the Defendant's home either on him/her or upon a person of "suitable age and discretion". Than, to cover your bases you send a copy to the adjuster at the insurance company who is handling the claim. Generally, the other side has twenty days to file an Answer to your Complaint. After this, discovery begins and is conducted also in accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure in your state."
The defendant may not (?) be aware of all pre-suit negotiations. When they are served and see the status of the claim, is it common for defendants to contact their insurance company and inquire as to what the insurance company can do to prevent trial?
The two sides may be so close that a mediator might wonder why mediation was needed if it got that far.
Do defendants ever ask their insurance company to help bridge the gap between the latest demand and offer? Or just put the served papers in a drawer and wait on the end result.
---------
If I was served such documents and surprised in some way, I'd call my insurance company and want to know what they are doing to wrap it up. My insurance premiums are going to be affected whether they increase their offer by say three thousand or not. Especially if the two sides are both 30% (the demand) to 40% (the offer) below the policy limits.
"Service of Complaint or Process is done in accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure. You or your attorney are responsible. You serve a copy at the Defendant's home either on him/her or upon a person of "suitable age and discretion". Than, to cover your bases you send a copy to the adjuster at the insurance company who is handling the claim. Generally, the other side has twenty days to file an Answer to your Complaint. After this, discovery begins and is conducted also in accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure in your state."
The defendant may not (?) be aware of all pre-suit negotiations. When they are served and see the status of the claim, is it common for defendants to contact their insurance company and inquire as to what the insurance company can do to prevent trial?
The two sides may be so close that a mediator might wonder why mediation was needed if it got that far.
Do defendants ever ask their insurance company to help bridge the gap between the latest demand and offer? Or just put the served papers in a drawer and wait on the end result.
---------
If I was served such documents and surprised in some way, I'd call my insurance company and want to know what they are doing to wrap it up. My insurance premiums are going to be affected whether they increase their offer by say three thousand or not. Especially if the two sides are both 30% (the demand) to 40% (the offer) below the policy limits.
All the things you mention above can happen.
However, be aware that insurance companies are crafty. They are experts at controlling their insureds. Most people either want to believe that (1) They are not really responsible for an accident; (2) If they are responsible it should only be up to the limits of their insurance policy; and (3) The plaintiff is faking or exaggerating his injuries and surely the judge or jury will see that when the case is tried. If someone suggests to them they pay more than their policy limits it is not likely to be favorably received by them.
Some insureds want an insurance company to take care of things and move on. Others, cannot accept their responsibility for causing an accident and encourage the company to fight tooth and nail. This is not always logical or rational. However, I have seen it plenty of times.
Insurance companies virtually never pay anything above their policy limit. Its why they have policy limits and sell them in the amounts that they do.
True story regarding a judgment in Florida against a former employee:
DUI case, 52 yr old guy hit/injured someone. He is arrested, lost his license. The car was his only asset, lives with his mom. Judgment proof right? They get a judgment against him for about 40K, plus interest accruing. Fast forward 3 years, his out of state dad died and leaves him about 100K. He puts it in a bank account and is living on easy street........lawyers garnish the account, get the judgment paid in full!
Well, to be honest, the "guy lives with his mom" might possibly hint at more unprotected assets- homes have "homestead" protections in nearly every state, and at least 30% of them come with mortgages, so being a "homeowner" doesn't make you a good target - 401k's and IRA's and prepaid life insurance are often untouchable.. If you think back to OJ's deal, even a multi-million dollar home & a good pension were untouchable & the goldmans were left looking at pictures of OJ in the enquirer & debating in court if his Rolex was real or fake.
The guy who has a decent job & lives with his mom may well collect guns or gold or have a corvette or other assets that can be attached..
The example defendant really is a legal neophyte- with good legal advice, he would have bk'd & made the judgement worthless & could have legally kept the inheritance.. Pretty sure inheritances can be structured as well, to protect the assets.. So, you're looking more at a defendant that doesn't know how to work the system or protect themselves, vs someone who is intentionally trying to duck liability. It's a fun story, but a rare one.
Credit-card judgements routinely sell for 3-5 cents on the dollar after they're a year or two old & most go uncollected. I know on the landlord forums there are lots of landlords who would sell their back rent judgements for 10 cents on the dollar & laugh if you paid that much.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
